Dr. Christie Kedarian - Navigating Modern Dating

In this episode of Let’s Talk Love, Robin sits down with Dr. Christie Kederian, Relationship Therapist, Celebrity Matchmaker, and Author of 10 Dates to Your Soulmate, for a thoughtful and enlightening discussion on navigating the modern dating world. Together, they explore the importance of self-awareness, intentionality, and observation while dating and in building lasting relationships.

Dr. Christie shares insights from her book, offering impactful dating strategies, such as saying YES to second dates, observing potential partners in different contexts, and recognizing concerning behaviors like love bombing. The conversation also touches on the evolving dynamics of online dating, the significance of premarital counseling, and the impact of mental health and family dynamics on relationship success. Whether you're new to dating or working toward deeper connections, this episode provides empowering advice to approach love with clarity and confidence.

Takeaways:

• Great relationships are created, not found.
• The dating process requires observation over expectation.
• First dates should be short to maintain momentum.
• Second dates are for deeper connection.
• Chemistry develops through genuine interactions.
• Understanding oneself is crucial in dating.
• Pay attention to Red Flags in early stages.
• Effective communication is key in relationships. 
• Understanding someone's reactions reveals their values.
• Be Aware before Emotionally investing in someone.  
• Commitment bias leads to overlooking red flags.
• Premarital counseling helps address important questions.
• Aligning visions for the future is essential.
• Mental health discussions are necessary for partnership.
• Family dynamics play a significant role in relationships.
• Past relationship insights foster personal responsibility.
• Defining relationships provides security and clarity.

We want to hear from you! Send us your anonymous questions for the Podcast as well as our weekly IG Live Ask The Experts Q&A. https://realloveready.com/submitaquestion

Links:

Book - https://drchristiekederian.com/10-dates-to-your-soulmate
Website - www.drchristiekederian.com

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Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready

Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Hello everyone, and welcome to Let's Talk. Love, I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, and today we're going to be joined by a friend of mine that I met last year in California, and her name is Christie Kedarian. Dr, Christy, the date doctor, we're having you on again, and I'm so happy to talk to you about your new book and welcome, Christie.

Dr. Christie Kedarian l Thank you so much for having me, Robin. It's always such a pleasure to be here.

Robin Ducharme | We love you, and we loved your new book. It's called 10 Dates to Your Soul Mate. So before we go into that, Dr, Christie why don't you tell us about yourself and and then we're going to talk about why you wrote this awesome book because it's very different than a lot of dating books that I've read before. So it's exciting.

Dr. Christie Kedarian l Love hearing that from you especially. Yes, I feel like you're very well read. So yeah, a little bit about me. I really found my passion in just being so curious about love and relationships from a really early age, kind of attribute that to my background, I'm an Armenian, and a really big part of our culture is just really centered on relationships and family and kind of that unit. And also my faith background as a Christian, just really centered in being like your relationship with God and others. And so I've always been so fascinated by relationships. And so when I was going to studying I studied psychology, and I kind of found my niche and clicked when I took a course in marriage and family therapy, and I just thought, oh, this makes so much sense that our closest relationships, or romantic relationships, really kind of impact who we are and kind of what happens in our life, our life satisfaction, all of that. So I did some research in college. Kind of fell in love with the fields, became a marriage and family therapist, and then throughout my journey, I was working with a lot of couples in my work, and a lot of couples that you know were doing well, it's usually when they come into the therapy office. And I was fascinated by what drew two people together and what made those relationships work. And there was an opportunity to work at eHarmony with the founder view harmony, Dr Neil Clark Warren, who is a psychologist from my hometown, Pasadena, and he really was one of the founding fathers of the dating app world, and developed this algorithm that with the purpose of trying to reduce the divorce rate. And so my work there with researching as well as kind of working in their matchmaking department. We worked with people and, you know, high profile people, celebrities, kind of people that didn't necessarily want to just use the dating app. They wanted kind of that higher touch approach. So I learned so much about kind of how modern dating works, these algorithms, how we're kind of combining and integrating, you know, the inner work, kind of what we need to do to prepare ourselves for relationship and now the new way of how people are actually meeting and what relationships are actually like now in this modern age. And so that started my whole route into matchmaking. Worked with eHarmony and other dating sites, and then started my own company, just really helping empower people to understand that intersection of kind of the inner soul work, as I call it, and the strategy that is really required to make sure that you're attracting the type of relationship that you wa

Robin Ducharme | Right and so you've spent, what is it, Christie like, the last two years writing your book, and now you're doing your book launch, and it's different. Your book is very different than other dating books, because, you know, you do talk about online dating a little bit you talk, you know, a little bit about how to meet people that you want to date. But really the meat of the book is dating with intention, from the first date to the 10th date, and hopefully over that time, you know you're learning about yourself in this relationship that you know could be starting, and, of course, asking the right questions and put and having the right dates and the scenarios, so that you're getting to know somebody on those deeper levels, which is so important, right? So it's about going from date one to date 10 and and the progression of that. So I just thought that was like, it's, it's so unique, it's very different than other dating books. So Christie tell us about the evolution of that, and why like and really the purpose of the book for the reader.

Dr. Christie Kedarian l Yeah. So when I first decided, you know, I wanted to kind of have my work be encapsulated in a way that, you know, the masses could tap into, because we work with just like a, you know, a small group of people in our group and individual programs I have, like a, you know, kind of curriculum and something that I teach all my clients. But when you break that down, and kind of breaks down into what I call, like the inner work, kind of the mindset piece, then the strategy. So that's kind of utilizing the technologies, or learning how to meet people without the apps. And the third part is this, you know, part of the program, which is the meat section, that's what, you know, 10 days to your soul mate, really breaks down. And what I found is a lot of times people think that when you just meet the right person. then the relationship will just magically appear that you want. And the reason that you're not getting there is because you haven't met the right person. I always say, and a lot of people have asked me, oh, you know you have soul mate in the title of your book, like, Do you believe in soul mates? And I that soul mates aren't found, they're really created. So it's really about finding the person that you feel like, hey, I want to create this relationship that I desire with this person. So you're kind of like, you have the ingredients, but you're trying to integrate your lives to make that recipe or whatever you're looking for. So I really decided to focus this book on that process of, how do you really know if someone is the right person for you, and how do you know that someone's not the right person for you? And sometimes, what I found is that a roadblock many people get into is they assume they know, like they have a gut feeling about someone. 

Robin l Exactly

Dr. Christie l In the book, the statistic that it takes an average 19 minutes and a first date for someone to decide, you know, I want to be with this person or not. And some people might think that's a long time. Some people might think that's a short time, but it's really we're not giving people a lot of a chance to understand more about them. And people kind of think, oh, you know, there was no chemistry. And if you tell your friends now, there's no chemistry, they'll say, of course, you know, move on. You deserve better. Don't settle. But maybe they're not looking underneath the surface and understanding, Hey, maybe I need to learn a little bit more about who's actually a good fit for me, and how to really understand if someone is or isn't 

Robin l I love all of that you just said, because I think it rings true for a lot of people. We're just so stuck on like, what I know, I know it's the chemistry piece. And you say, like, over and over and over in the book, it's like, you have to go beyond the first date, unless it's like, absolutely red flags, definitely not. There's just not a chance. Because, you know, there's some hard and fast, definitely nots. But you're saying, for the most part, you want to get you're going to say yes to a second date, or you're going to want to ask for a second date, right Christie?

Dr. Christie l Exactly. So the way that I really recommend people approach the dating process is trying to figure out as much as you can before you actually go on a first date. Sometimes people think, oh, you know, I'm just gonna meet someone and like, let's just see what happens. But statistically, your chances aren't really great. If you're looking for a long term relationship and you're just going to a bar meeting someone. I think it's like less than 8% of people find a long term relationship at a bar. So ideally, what you want to do you know, whether you're being connected through friends or on a dating app, is figure out kind of what those top qualities are that you're looking for, and get those out of the way before you're on a first date. I find especially with a lot of women that they show up to the first date with their kind of laundry list of questions in their head, like, okay, how am I going to ask this guy if he you know, has financial stability, and if he you know, wants kids, and what happens is that really kills any type of chemistry when you're just like, you know, 

Robin l Interviewing 

Dr. Christie l Someone. 

Robin l Oh, totally, right?

Dr. Christie l So it's really about showing up on the first date and already knowing some of the main things, and just kind of seeing how you feel around a person and connecting with them on that personal level. And you know, there's plenty of time to dig deeper about their past relationships and all those things. And I kind of break that down more specifically in the book on like, which date you should delve into that. But I think really, on the first date, you want to make sure that you connect with them, that they're a kind person. There's no blaring red flags there. And then the second day is when you kind of continue getting to know if they are you know your person

Robin l Right. And throughout the book, you have really good examples of clients you worked with and how, when I was reading this, I'm like, I heard that one, oh, been there, done that. Like, you just, like, I love the examples, because there's, like, a lot that we can all relate to. So you've got a client, Liz, who like, so there's people that just don't get up beyond the first date, right? I think this, this is you're seeing this in your practice, 

Dr. Christie l Yes. 

Robin l So Liz was acting so she wasn't feeling the chemistry on the first date, which I think is common, that people are like, looking for the sparks, the fireworks, like, and, and so she didn't, maybe she didn't realize, but she was acting quite uninterested pretty soon on in the first date, right? Yeah. And so you're asking for feedback after and she's like, Well, I think he was okay, like, maybe, maybe I would entertain a second date. And he was, like, thinking, going, like, no, like, yeah, she, she was clearly getting me the signs that she wasn't into me. Yes, right, 

Dr. Christie l Exactly, yeah. 

Robin l So you were able to actually bring that awareness to your client and be like, All right, like, let's get him beyond the just, just for the chemistry piece.

Dr. Christie l Yeah, exactly. So what happened with Liz was specifically, she fell into this category that I talked about in the book, which is like the one and done data. And what one and done daters don't often understand is that they feel like I know myself really well. I can just go in here, you know, check off the boxes and be out of here. You know, by the time to make happy. Are with my friends, but we didn't realize is that she was actually self sabotaging the chemistry she didn't feel. Because chemistry is really a dynamic. You have to show up, you know, as your best self, wanting to connect, not in this like judgmental, like interviewer. Should I give this guy the job or not? Because he felt that in in their situation, John really felt that from her, and he wasn't able to be his best self, because he felt like, I'm getting questioned. And just 

Robin l Exactly. 

Dr. Christie l So the chemistry didn't show up

Robin l It's the it's, it's like, Are you both giving this? Is your your full selves to that interaction, right? Are you being present? And she wasn't. So of course, he's gonna shut down. 

Dr. Christie l Yeah, exactly.

Robin l Right. So it is self sabotage. That's, that's a really good point. Okay, so you're always like, pretty much saying, okay, just go to the second date. So then, so the first date is about you, you know, I'm feeling I feel good. I feel at ease. I can be myself. Good conversation, like, so you're, you're just, you're, you're paying attention to, how are you feeling with this new person, this stranger that I just met for the first time?and if it's like, okay, feeling feeling good, feeling like, Okay, that was That wasn't bad, wasn't it wasn't right, okay? And then you're gonna you definitely want to go for the second date, right Christie? 

Dr. Christie l Yeah.

Robin l So what is the goal of the second date?

Dr. Christie l So the second it's really about kind of spending a little bit more time with them, kind of digging deeper. So some examples I give at the end of the chapters of like the type of date to go on, so the first date I really say, shouldn't be too long. Sometimes people think I'm having a great time. I should spend five hours with this person. And the reality is, you really need momentum in the dating process, and that will just kill momentum right away. It's great if they show up amazing on the first date, but I want to see them on the seventh date and the eighth date, and so it's good not to fully invest everything in that first date. It's just like a shorter date. The second date can be a little bit longer. You can say yes to a dinner because, you know, like, okay, there's something here. And now we're going to explore it deeper, and that's where we're getting to know a little bit more about them. I know, if you want to know, you know if they were married before, certain things like that. But we're also learning and sharing what I call, like the elevator pitch speech. So it's not like we're diving deep into our whole past and our divorce and this and that we're talking about, like, all these things the whole time, because that can also really kill chemistry. But you can give like a little elevator pitch of I was married before it didn't work out. Here's what I learned, here's what I'm looking for moving forward. And if they have more questions, you can politely say, I'm so happy to share more if we continue getting to know each other. But this is where you might be digging a little bit deeper and just seeing if there's more of that, more of that deeper connection that goes beyond just like the surfac

Robin l Yeah I like the idea of a first date being very short. I know when, like, I was working as a matchmaker and dating coach, and even in my own experience, when I before I met Hector, I was like, okay, my first date a walk, one hour walk, Max, right? And it's like, and I would say, like, I remember this, because, actually, I did have work to do after my date with Hector

Dr. Christie l Yeah.

Robin l And so I said to him, before we walked, I was like, and even before when we met, I said, I've got an hour to walk. And while we were walking, I said, like, if you've got a watch on, because I didn't, I didn't bring my phone or anything. I was just, like, if you got a watch on, could you just check 30 minute mark and then we'll turn around. Like, I was like, quite and that's not rude. I mean, I and we could have stood there and talked a lot longer, but I was like, I'm on the one hour rule within myself. And if this goes well, it's like, we'll book a second date. I think it's like, there's not a big obligation. You've not committed a whole bunch of time. I was looking pretty, but I wasn't, like, dressed up for a fancy dinner. 

Dr. Christie l Yeah. 

Robin l So I just think it's that gives you a little bit more peace too, that you have, you know, over invested in somebody you don't really know 

Dr. Christie l Exactly. Yeah. I think that's what really creates a lot of discouragement for people in the dating process, is that they over invest too quickly. They kind of already, oh, I'm with this person in my mind, and I'm planning our futures, and it's like we have to slow down the process,

Robin l Yeah So you, you say that dating should be more about observation than it is about expectation. I love that, 

Dr. Christie l Yeah. 

Robin l So tell us, because you're, you know, this is what you're seeing a lot of right? People are coming in with these huge expectations of what so tell us about that. Christie, and how do you help people recognize you know, the dating process is way more about like, observing somebody else, observing yourself. How like and how do you coach people in that?

Dr. Christie l Yeah, so the thing that I always say is that when you show up to a date and the dating process with someone, you don't want to give them a playbook. And a lot of times I see, especially women in our work, do that. So they show up, you know, to the first or second date, and they already kind of place expectations on this person, as if we're already in a relationship. So it's like, oh, I want them to text me at this time, and I want this and that, and I want them to pick me up for dinner. It's like all of these things that we tell them that we want, or somehow. Communicate that we are interested in, and when you give someone the playbook, they can easily just do what you want them to do, but you don't actually know if that's truly their character or truly who they are, what they would do naturally. So remove the expectations from the dating process before you're in that committed relationship where it's like, yeah, we are going to meet each other's needs and focus on each other's desires and priorities at this point, we just really want to observe how they are and what I say, their natural habitat. So I really say to focus on that kind of on from dates three to five and see someone in a contact situation, instead of just talking to them across the dinner table and hearing, you know, from the horse's mouth, who they are, we have to learn about who they are as they interact with the world around them,

Robin l Like how they're behaving. I love this example you gave of your client, Lindsay, okay, so she had, she and her that the man that she was dating had had, I think, two or three dates, right? And they were long dates, like, restaurant dates, 

Dr. Christie l Yes.

Robin l And she said, like, Okay, you asked her, Well, how long like, was your second date? And she was like, Oh, I think it was four hours, right? You're like, well, that is a very long time for conversation. And she's like, well, we ran out of things. Like, I just don't know where this is going, because she's like, we ran out of things to say. And you're like, well, it only makes sense. Like, he was ready four hours, like, three hours on the first date, four hourson the second date. And it's like, there's only so much, like, you know, like, I think I'm a pretty good conversationalist, but to sit down and talk to somebody like you're trying to think of new things, and you're like, Okay, I don't, I don't think he's the one. Yeah, I really like this. Because you're like, Okay, I think what you need to do is have a contact state, Oh, the other question you asked her, Christie, I love it. You're like, Okay, well, what actually are you? Let's get to exactly what you're looking for and what's what you value in a partner. And you know, she says, trust, honesty, vulnerability, generosity, for instance. And you're like, how are you supposed to tell that that person embodies those values? Yeah, through conversation, right? It's pretty hard. Really good point though. Really like, I didn't think about it that way. And then I was like, That is so true. Like, somebody has to show you with their actions that they they have these traits, right? Exactly. So, so you have to do like, you have to do a date like, so tell us about a context date like that you had recommended. And then, because I think that, and then he showed his true he showed a lot more of those just in the behavior, Right?

Dr. Christie l Yeah, exactly. So I think a lot of times, like with Lindsay, people come in with that kind of intangible list when they ask them what they're looking for, and all those things are so important and great qualities for a relationship, but there's really no way to find those out from that person. Like you can't say, you know, are you loyal?

Robin l Yes. Are you,  are you trustworthy?

Dr. Christie l Of course their loyal.  So, and that's where a lot of people, especially that have attracted people that are emotionally unavailable, or, you know, quote, unquote narcissists or love bombing them like they've just kind of trusted what somebody says about them, rather than taking that step back and observing them in the environment. And then Lindsay's situation with Jake, what happened was that she felt like he was a nice guy, but she kind of felt like that conversation was like dying out. So what I recommended was to do some sort of context activity for him. He really enjoyed rock climbing. He was like in his element. So they went indoor rock climbing, and she was able to see so many different sides of him, his sense of humor. A lot of the things that she was looking for through kind of doing some activity together. She saw his generosity, and she saw him helping out, you know, just like all of these different things that there's no way she could have seen in conversation, and she's built that chemistry so quickly just from spending, you know, a few hours doing an activity. There's research that supports this too. If you're like, This is a really nice guy or person, but I just don't know if they are for me, go on an activity day and just see them in a different environment or element, and that might really change what your perception of them is.

Robin l I really like that. So you talk about red flags, looking closely for red flags. Like you said, love bombing right by date, like, I think it would like date six, you could. So this is, like, what you were saying before, right is around all the words, all the, you know, the texting and like, it's everything's so eloquent, and it's all going great, but when the rubber hits the road, like,doyou actually know this person and how they behave with other people? Like, how? How do you like, like, how are you helping clients step back and understand if love bombing is happening, and how they actually figure out, is it? Is it? Is it love bombing? Like, in a situation or contex date,

Dr. Christie l Yeah. And the thing about a process too is like, typically, people don't really make it to the sixth or seventh date if they're love bombing, because

Robin l Right

Dr. Christie l Runs out. And if you're able to kind of do the context conversation, plan it that way, that you're not spending, you know, five to 10 hours emotionally investing and connecting with them on the second date, then it does it pretty much wheres o ut and you're able to see with from a bird's eye view, instead of just being so emotionally attached already that you're getting you know, you're not able to see the potential red flags. But generally, I recommend, kind of by that fifth to seventh date that you're combining a context and conversation date, so you're spending a little bit more time with the person. And within there some of the strategies I recommend. One is, like, a situational conversation. That could be something that when you're you know, going somewhere, like in a context, like, one example is kind of beliefs about money. And example I gave in the book is like, let's say you're walking around a farmer's market and you like, want to buy this candle, and it's like $40 and you say, I want to buy this candle. And you watch what their reaction is. Like, $40 on the candle. Like, are you insane? Or like, Oh, that's great. So generous. I'm going to buy one for my sister. Like, you kind of see their reaction in that situation. Another example with the generosity piece that I shared was, you know, sharing maybe a time that someone was extremely generous with you. Like, the example that I gave was like, oh, you know, this person kind of loaned me money and my family to buy a house and seeing kind of what their response is, oh, that's a really dumb financial decision. I would never do that. Or, oh, that's actually so generous. Like, how inspiring. So you can kind of see from someone's reactions, like, where their actual values are, without kind of being having that direct question. So it's like in these conversations, you can understand a little bit more about their perspective as well. And another piece in the red flag conversation that I think is valuable is seeing someone in the context of their relationships with family and friends, either their own or your sometimes people wonder, when's the right time to do this? And I think around date, six or seven, maybe even eight, is a good time, because you've already established that you're like this person, so you're not leaning too far on that support system to tell you, like, hey, should I like this person or not? Like, you've already kind of done that inventory yourself. But then you're also opening up to their perspective, people that really love you before you have entered that commitment and not seen some of the red flags that can come up. So I think that that's a good time to do that as well.

Robin l I think so too. So you have an acronym, which I really like. It's E, I B, A, emotionally invested before aware. So people are, you know, it's so, I just think this is, like, so common, right, that people are just like, jumping in after, you know, two, three dates with somebody, and it's like they're in, like, I'm completely like, this person's the one, like, we're moving forward, they're emotionally invested. And it takes away, like, your awareness, like you're just clouded by all this, you know, all the fight, like, all the chemistry and whatever you're feeling. But this is what you're inviting people to do over and over again, is like, take this slow. You're getting to know us, like, this person was a perfect stranger until weeks ago, or even, right? 

Dr. Christie l Yes.

Robin l And it's like we actually really need to be more aware and we're careful about that. Yeah, right, that's okay. Like, I just think, like, this is what we need to talk more about, is actually stepping back and understanding your worth. And it's like, this person I need to they're gonna have to earn my trust and my emotional investment.

Dr. Christie l Yes  exactly yeah, a really common mistake, and we see this in the research they call it commitment bias, and that's where people commit to someone, and then what happens is, once you're committed, you're a lot more likely to overlook, you know, some of these red flags, you're a lot more likely to be mistreated in relationships because you've already kind of invested. It's like an economic principle, right? It's like, you opportunity costs. You You want to cut your losses. But some people, when you're already invested, you're like, oh, this is so much harder to pull out, even if it's a declining investment, right? So it's the same thing in relationships. So the longer you can kind of wait for that commitment and wait for that emotional investment, the more you're going to gather all the information. It doesn't mean that, oh, they have to be perfect and that sometimes people, especially if you're more avoidantly attached, you kind of lean the other way, where you're like, you don't want to emotionally connect at all, because you're looking for things wrong with them. But it's just about, kind of having as much information as you really need at that point in time to move forward with a commitment. And that's what I really say, kind of moving into date seven and eight, that you can focus on kind of getting the awareness around some of these really core pieces of someone's life that usually, I mean, especially when I was doing couples therapy, I would find sometimes people would be engaged or married without even having some of these conversations. And I think that this is kind of the time where you're, like, considering that first commitment, that you can really delve deeper into these areas so you can have an awareness of what a relationship with this person will be like. 

Robin l I think you make a really good point. And I wanted to ask you about that. Christie around when you were working as a therapist and you were doing pre marital counseling, right with people, 

Dr. Christie l Yeah.

Robin l Which I think is awesome. I don't think a lot of people do that. I mean. I know it's something that a lot of, for instance, if you're Catholic, a lot of you have to do it. Like, it's part of you want to get married to Catholic Church, you have to do premarital counseling, 

Dr. Christie l Yeah

Robin l Which I think it like, I think premature counseling is so important and good. Like, I didn't, I didn't do it, right? But tell, yeah, tell us about that. Like, like you said, it's like, these people have promised themselves they're gonna get they've made a commitment to get married. But what kind of questions have did they not ask each other? Can we Yeah, like you're, you're, you're, which is what you're saying. Like, even by date six, date seven, date eight, more dates you're on, you want to get to know somebody on the deep, deeper, deeper, deeper level each time.

Dr. Christie l Yeah. So the first area is what I call kind of like vision and values. So really getting a clear picture of what this person's vision for their future is their ideal future. Obviously, life doesn't always turn out as we plan, but you really can learn a lot about someone's values with what they envision for their future. So you know, let's say they want to be a digital nomad and travel the world for the next three years, and you, you know, have a dental practice and you can't leave

Robin l You're like, Well, the good thing you told me on date six, but that's not going to happen for me, 

Dr. Christie l Exactly those futures don't align. And no matter how much chemistry you have with some, 

Robin l No matter what

Dr. Christie l But you know, I work with a lot of people that are in the kind of that age of, do I want kids? Do I not want kids? And the most painful relationships that didn't work out are the ones where maybe you kind of enter the relationship where one person really wanted kids and the other person was undecided, and then they ended up on different sides of that decision. And that can be very painful, because either way, someone kind of chooses a future that they didn't envision for themselves, if they decide to stay together, those types of conversations, I think, are really important before you commit to someone being on the same page with those key things that you envision for your own future and those values that really dictate who you are and how you live. The second area is really learning a lot more about their own like mental health and wellness. You know, any history there? And I think people don't have this conversation enough, though, alarming percentage of Americans struggle with, at the very least, anxiety, depression. You know, people all around the world, so really understanding what that is, what their struggle is, and what their like prevention plan is so let's say they, you know, maybe know that they struggle with this, or at times do, what do they do when they're struggling? Like, what is their plan? Like? How do they take care of themselves? These are questions that you know, people don't often ask, but they really need to know the answer to, because if you're going to partner with someone in life, there's going to be ups and downs, and if they have that history, mental health, addiction, whatever that is, we have to kind of know how we can support someone, but make sure that they're able to support themselves on their own as well. The third area is family dynamics. So a lot of people don't really ask this question, because they're like, Oh, well, I don't really need to know about that. And then I would see, you know, premarital counseling, all of a sudden it was like this huge thing, like their parents or this or that, or, you know, they're really helping their parents out with this thing, and it's really affecting their actual relationship. Or they don't have they're estranged from their family, and there's resentment, because you're really close to your family. But you know, as a therapist, really working with people's childhood a family of origin, whether your family's in the picture or not, they are very much present in how you, you know, operate in your own relationship, so you 

Robin l Definetly

Dr. Christie l What's going on there. And no family is perfect. So there's always going to be some kind of baggage, but you have to have the awareness of what you're getting yourself into and figure out, Is this the right baggage for me? And then the last area is past relationships, really understanding kind of what dynamics didn't work out, what personal responsibility they take, rather than just saying, oh, all my exes are crazy, like, what part of that role did they not play maybe, because it's always about the dynamic, and figuring out, you know, what role they play currently, if someone has kids and CO parents, like, what, what do those dynamics look like?

Robin l Exactlt. And I really, I love the fact that, in the book, each for each date, you do have, like, good questions like that you can that you can ask, and it's with consideration, you know. And there's an approach, like, it's not just like, All right, let's sit down and ask each other these six questions. Like, no, it's like, there's a way to do this, right? Like, you give the example around this one woman that was dating a man who had a history of depression. And like you said, like, mental health is something that we need to talk about. And it's like, the stigma, you know, thank goodness we're getting there, but it's still there, but the fact that she was still concerned, you know, like, by date, whatever it was, like, let's say date eight or nine, and things were going great, but she did have the back of her head this concern. And it's very important that you, that you talk about that concern, yeah, and you can do it very lovingly, just and because you want to know this is very important. How will he deal in the future if something bad happens, and if he slips back into depression, like, what has he done in the past? Because this inevitably will affect not only him but your relationship. It makes sense, right? So it doesn't serve anybody not to have these discussions.

Dr. Christie l 100%Yeah, and I think that the thing that people don't often think about when they're like, Okay, should I talk about this or not, is that it can actually reduce a lot of the shame for them as well, or the fear for them as well, especial and if you're someone who, you know struggles, and you're like, how do I approach this conversation? I think it can be so powerful and healing to have someone really meet you in that and say, Hey, like, I'll be with you. I'll, you know, help support you in that as well, rather than them kind of hiding it, and then it coming out in different ways, and you're like, Oh, I feel helpless. I don't know how to help, like, having these conversations before it becomes a potential problem in your relationship,

Robin l Right. And the example with the man with the with depression, I mean, she your client thought, okay, this, this could very well be a red flag, right? But his response was, this is what I did. I got help. I'm actively working with a counselor, you know, and just know that I am committed to my mental, my my well being. And that gave her a lot of peace, because she was like, okay, like,

Dr. Christie l Yeah.

Robin l This is that's really good for me to for him. When stuff does happen, because it's going to in life, stuff happens. He's gonna, he's gonna be, you know, proactive with this, with his care. Yeah, she could keep him in that. 

Dr. Christie l Yeah I always tell people like, the number one thing to look for in someone is their commitment to growth. And if they're 

Robin l Yes.

Dr. Christie l Work on themselves. Because you could find someone like that who, you know, struggles with their mental health. Or you can find someone who appears to not appears to be perfect. I would choose the growth person 100 times 

Robin l Me too.

Dr. Christie l Or because life is going to happen, people develop issues later on, and if they're not willing to kind of look at themselves and be committed to that growth at this point, then you don't want to see them when you know life happens,

Robin l You're absolutely right. So in the book, you talk about commitment, right? And when you when are you going to have this? When to have the conversation? How to have the conversation? I also like you. You said, do do. You say, do late, if people ask you, do labels matter? And you're like, there's emphatic yes, yes. Labels matter, and I agree, right? Otherwise, you're gonna end up with a situationship. So tell me, like, Tell me about that. Christie.

Dr. Christie l Yeah. And people ask me that question all the time, and sometimes people will come to me then they're like, I've been kind of dating this person for six months to a year, and I don't know where we stand. And, you know, I'm anxious. I'm like, of course, you're anxious because, 

Robin l Yeah

Dr. Christie l You  know, relationships, we need that definition. We to feel secure. We want to build that secure attachment with someone. And how can we do that if we don't know exactly where we stand and exactly where we fit into, you know, their vision for the future as well as ours? So I really believe that we do, you do have to kind of define what the relationship is. And typically, kind of, if you're following our process, generally, that's around, like the two and a half to three month mark. You know, if you're looking for that type of long term relationship or marriage or whatever, obviously, if you're not, then you know, do what you want to do. But if you do want to do that, then I think that this is the time to kind of realize, okay, anything after this point is just going to be kind of acting as if we're in a relationship, but not having the label

Robin l Not defined, right? Because you could be dating somebody for, like you said, five, six months, that person's going, I'm having a great time.

Dr. Christie l Yeah

Robin l I have no intention of staying with this person, because that person doesn't  know that 

Dr. Christie l Yeah, and if you're progressing with relationships in this way, a lot of people say, Well, I've been dating someone for six months, but I don't even know you know what they want in the future. Well, of course, then it's not going to feel like there's as much depth as someone that you maybe you've only gone on 10 dates with, but you really explored and understood so much more of their character. And there's been a progression of connection, rather than just kind of staying at the surface level and, oh, all we do is kind of go out and have a good time, and that's it, you know. So I think that there is that conversation of like, you can go on 10 dates, but if they're all the same date, and you're not really deepening that connection, then, yeah, it's not going to feel like you're ready for relationship. But if you go on these dates, 10 or, you know, you have to be so specific to that number. But if you go on dates and you feel like there's that progression of connection, feel like you know enough about them to kind of then step into that commitment with someone, then we transition into okay. This goes from observing and goes more into Okay. I'd like to commit to this person and connect in a way that we're committed to meeting each other's needs and desires and forming that relationship. 

Robin l So you give an example of a client you're working with, who they've been dating for a while, and it was a time for that conversation, just to define the relationship, to say, like, are we both ready to commit? Do we both want this? And I think it was one of the was either the mad woman, I can't remember, but they were, like, actually, not yet, like, I still have some concerns or things that I need clarity on, and I know that would, that would be that would, that would hurt to hear for you know, it would sting a little bit like, but it's really good that you want to get this stuff, you know, out in the open, and one of the things was the family dynamics piece, wasn't it Christie like he's just asking more For more answers and more clarity around the relationship that this person had with their family? 

Dr. Christie l Yeah exactly. And I think, like when you open, invite that conversation, then you're able to have that authenticity, like they did in in the book. Because that person you know might feel like, oh, I can never, kind of broach this topic, but because there is that invitation of, like, hey, I'd like to, like, take this to the next stage. Like, what would that require for me, I feel like, comfortable doing that. Like, what does that require on your end? It's not a rejection, per se. It's not that they don't want that, but it's really about understanding, okay, like, this is kind of what I would need to feel comfortable moving forward and seeing if that person can meet you there, or if more conversations or more time need to kind of unfold for them to feel safe enough to kind of move forward into that what you want to pay attention to is if they don't really have a reason, if they say, you know, I'm not really ready, but I don't know why that could be kind of an indication that they're afraid of commitment, or they kind of have that pattern of like, yeah, they don't want to put a label on something, and so that's a really good thing to know at this point, rather than you know, what I see a lot of times is that they just kind of keep getting strung along and never kind of have that commitment that they're looking for and that will easily breed resentment into a relationship and can really affect a healthy dynamic.

Robin l I think so t, and I, like my partner, and I have always had this, it's almost like this, we're checking in on each other. We're checking how are like, we've been together for almost, well, it's 11 months, and it's like, it's not like we're checking in like, like, are you doing this? It's more just like, like, I loveu,  like, so grateful for you. Like, we're we're giving each other reassurance. And I think when you're dating, this is, I mean, what I would give the advice, which is what I think I followed, was like, are we on the same page? Are you good? Like, do you feel like, are we having another do you want to have anothe, more time together? I'm really enjoying this, and if you're getting that positive feedback, you're both moving in the in the same direction, 

Dr. Christie l Right, exactly 

Robin l Like, maybe sometimes it's like, if this is if you're having this conversation, like, date date 10, date 11, which is three months in, maybe it's like, why wouldn't you be more honest in the beginning, right? Christie, what do you think?

Dr. Christie l Yeah, I think, like, ideally, you're not getting to that 10th dater and you're like blindsided, because you are having some of those deeper conversations and connections and having that positive feedback. I mean, feels good for anyone. I think that that's a great way to indicate that someone's interested in your emotional world, how you're feeling in the process, and not kind of just avoiding some of those conversations till, you know, the end, or till things work out or don't work out, and it shows that someone's really emotionally aware, I think, to be able to kind of ask that they have that emotional intelligence to, like, you know, respond like, Oh, I'm enjoying this. Or you and, like, checking in, I think is really important in every relationship.

Robin l Yeah, I okay. So there was, I wanted to talk about online dating before we close, because there was some interesting research that I read from you around women, there is more success in online dating with women messaging men first.

Dr. Christie l Yeah

Robin l Can you talk about that, please? Because I thought, oh, like, I mean, because you're on top of, like, what's happening in the online dating world. And I think there's, there's still rules that people like to follow around the man should be the one reaching out first or setting up the first date, or all these things. And it's just like the world's changing people like, we have to be more open here. But tell us about the research around tha

Dr. Christie l Yeah the research is really interesting, and I share it with my female clients all the time, because I think people, especially with the dating apps like we don't really know what the first move is or who's making the first move first. And so a lot of female clients I have will either avoid sending the first message because they think, oh, he, you know, the the person should, you know, send that message, yeah, they're got the person should, or they get stuck in this kind of pen pal dynamic where they're just texting, waiting for the guy to make the move and ask you out, but we're investing and wasting all of our time just talking to someone and not actually going on a date. So I always frame it to women in that sense of like, okay, would you rather just like, figure out if this person wants to go on a date or not, or would you rather, like waste your time, and kind of from a value perspective, it shows a lot more value of yourself and self worth to say no, you know what I really respect my time, and I just kind of want to see this person is interested in going on a day, rather than just going along with whatever pen pal situation and conversation for weeks, because, well, I'm. to follow the rule and not ask them out first. So I think, like, ideally, and you know, I share a lot of strategy on this, on my page and with my clients, but ideally, you're having, like, a shorter, you know, conversation back and forth, just making sure they have that kind of emotional, social intelligence to ask you questions back and forth, and you're getting to know kind of if they meet your main criteria, and then you're transitioning to going on a date. So an easy thing I recommend telling having clients say, is, I'm not gonna be checking the app that much this weekend, but  if you free. I'm up for a quick, you know, FaceTime hello on this day or this day. So it's like, hey, like we're transitioning, and I'm ready to kind of connect in a different, deeper way. If you feel like you want to ascribe to more traditional viewpoints, then I would say you can let him make the first move of like asking out on an actual date after the FaceTim but getting through that dating app kind of Limbo is really important to make sure you're actually meeting with people and not getting stuck in the proces

Robin l Yes exactly. But what, I think, what this research was telling me as well, is men do appreciate a woman that's going to start the conversation. 

Dr. Christie l Oh, yeah

Robin l And maybe they're just being more shy. Is that what it is you think Christie?

Dr. Christie l Yeah I mean, talking to a lot of my male clients, I think, like, the reality is that they're pretty fatigued from dating apps as well. They also are the ones that are constantly getting like actually rejected, whereas women more so have what we call perceived rejection, where they think they're getting rejected because someone's not swiping on them. But men are actually kind of if they're given that responsibility, of them always have to be asking someone out,

Robin l Then they are getting more rejected. That makes sense.

Dr. Christie l I think that they're really tired, honestly, as well. So I think that having more of a egalitarian approach to it can be really helpful and they might appreciate, you know, that positive affirmation of like, this girl's reaching out and she's interested, I don't have to do all of the work just to prove that, you know, I'm interested,

Robin l Yeahh. Well, this has been, like, so awesome, and you're always so full of wisdom and and ways that we can, like, help, help people find out their person, right? And it's, yeah, you could be happy with many different people. I mean, your book is called 10 Dates to Your Soul Mate. And I really like how you emphasize what you said before. Is like, you're, you know, you build your soulmate relationship, it's not you, and you could have different, different soulmates in this lifetime so 

Dr. Christie l Exactly yeah

Robin l You've got, you've you found your soulmates, which is beautiful after being a bridesmaid 22 times. I do love it. Christie, so, so tell, tell us about your web, like your website and your course that you offer, and, of course, your book. I hope everybody reads your book after listening to this book, because there's so many great questions and a great way to get to know somebody over time. So yeah

Dr. Christie l Thank you so much. I really appreciate that feedback. But yeah, you can connect with me on my website, therapyfordating.com we have a lot of information about ways to work with me, both in the coaching realm. So if you need just kind of like some individual or group support we have that we have courses that come out, as well as the matchmaking services. So you can find all that information on your website, and then the book 10 Dates to Your Soul Mate you can order anywhere books are sold. Yeah, I'm really excited for this to be kind of out there in the world.

Robin l Of course, it is. It's your new baby. 

Dr. Christie l Yes

Robin l I should be very proud. It's very it's an excellent book. So thank you. Thank you. Dr Christie Kederian, I'm going to close with a blessing. We do this every podcast, and it's just, it's really with your words and your wisdom. So may we learn what we can about a person eyes wide open. We want to have grace for someone else's flaws and imperfections without playing Russian roulette with the most important decision of our lives. May we know we are designed for relationships, connection and intimacy, and though there are different ways to arrive at the intended destination, as long as we have curiosity, clarity and awareness, we can create the relationship we desire. And may we remember I really like this, if it's meant to be it will find a way indeed, nothing good gets away. I believe that, yeah, I believe that there's a plan for all of us. And you know nothing, nothing good that's for you will will go beyond you.

Dr. Christie l Yes, I agree too

Robin l You have to be in a place of receiving and I think that I'm learning that in my life, and it's made all the difference.

Dr. Christie l Yes, so true. I love that 

Robin l Thank you. Dr Christie Kederian

Dr. Christie l Thank you for having me Robin.