Cat Cantrill - Heart-Centered Dating

Welcome back for Season 8 of Let’s Talk Love! In this episode, Robin sits down with Cat Cantrill, an experienced Matchmaker and Dating Coach to gain new insights on dating today. Cat shares her personal journey into the love industry, emphasizing the importance of self-love and understanding one's needs in relationships. They discuss the significance of reevaluating (or letting go of) non-negotiables, the skills required for dating, and practical strategies for meeting potential partners in real life. Cat and Robin encourage listeners to view dating as a journey of self-discovery rather than a series of failures. They explore how each date can reveal new aspects of oneself and help clarify what you’re truly seeking in a partner. The conversation highlights the growth that comes from embracing the process without being overly attached to the outcomes.

Takeaways:

• Self-love is crucial for attracting the right partner.
• Many clients don't truly know what they want in a partner.
• Rejection can be a form of protection and redirection in dating.
• Non-negotiables in relationships may not be as rigid as we think.
• Dating is a skill that can be learned and one that requires practice and openness.
• The Two, Three, Five formula helps guide dating decisions.
• It's important to communicate your openness to dating with others.  Ask for introductions!

We want to hear from you! Send us your anonymous questions for the Podcast as well as our weekly IG Live Ask The Experts Q&A. https://realloveready.com/submitaquestion

Links:

www.scottsdalematchmaker.com

www.dressedforlove.com

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Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready

Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | This is a very exciting episode of Let's Talk Love I am joined today by my friend, Cat Cantrilll, Cat 

Cat Cantrill | Robin

Robin Ducharme | Good to see you, and I love you. I really, really do.

Cat Cantrill | I love you too. Yes. Feeling is very mutual. I was so tickled. I was like, I felt like I was part. I was picked to be part of the cool girls. I was like, Okay, I could be a cool girl. I I'll be a part of this. I'll be part of the cool kids squad, cool

Robin Ducharme | Of course you are a cool girl Cat. I realized that, you know, it's really because, you know, when you meet somebody for the first time, just so people, the listeners we met at Rachel Greenwald's Matchmaker. MBA, 

Cat | Yes

Robin | And you know, when you meet somebody for the first time, and you know, we were surrounded by a group of amazing people. That is, we're in the love business like so all of us are very heart centered people. And you know, you are a heart centered matchmaker. So this is your and you really do come from the heart, but you're also a very, very cool girl.

Cat | Oh, thanks, Robin.

Robin | We can be both you know

Cat | Yes that's right. We can be both. We can be both. Yes, okay,

Robin | Well, so, so those of you that don't know Cat and you will in the next hour. So Cat, you are a professional matchmaker. You're a dating coach, and you also help people with lifestyle like styling when getting ready for love and

Cat | Yes

Robin | And all of those things. So tell us how you got into this business.

Cat | Oh, God, you know, it's these matchmakers always have their own unique stories, like we all do, of how we got into the love industry. And I, as you know, love professionals. And I, for me, I think my first love is people, and I've always loved people just 

Robin | I really like that.

Cat | It was even as a small child, like there was something I, I mean, I even remember being my fifth grade class president, because I just was, like, I felt compelled to lead and to help and to inspire, even as a young child, and as I became older, just my love for people started to grow even more so to where people would start to come to me about their problems and about like, hey, Cat, can I, you know, bounce this off of you? Can I Is this something that I can talk to you about? And I've there's a joke in my family that I'm that I'm that type of person that would stand in line in a grocery store and just complete strangers will just come over and start talking to me. It's just, I'm one of those people. And even my husband knows now, like, when people just start coming and talking to me, he'll go, I'll just, I'll go get the car. Okay, yeah, I'll meet you.

Robin | This is gonna be a bit. Yeah

Cat | That's right.That's right. So I my journey 

Robin | Your living what you talk right? Because you're very heart centered

Cat |  Exactly. 

Robin | You're an open hearted person, and people, can they feel that they see that.

Cat | Yes and I love that, and I and so for this, I fell into this industry because of the need of of someone and I, I've been an entrepreneur since 2012 is kind of when I started my entrepreneurial journey. I I opened up a business that I would work. I was a it was a dance studio, and I would work in the evenings, and I worked a corporate job during the day, and I had two teenagers at home. As a single mom, I had been through a divorce. I'd been through the trenches of online dating, trying to meet my someone special, and just kind of, instead of diving completely into dating, I decided to go introspective, you know, go into myself and be like, okay, what can I do to enhance my own life and to make me happy? And I had moved to the state that I'm in now, which is Iowa, and I had moved to Iowa, and I really didn't have a lot of friends, and I didn't I had moved here, as in my early 30s, and so I built this dance studio, not only to because I was always a dancer and I knew it was something that I could do, so I built this dance studio, and not only just to teach women how to dance, but also to find friends and to build a community and to connect and to bring like minded women together. And so what the studio led into coaching. And the coaching piece of what I started to do was really because of my husband, because what ended up happening is I opened up my dance studio, and then a year later, I decided to go online dating. And when I went online dating, I found my now husband, and the following year, it was the push of my husband. We had been dating for a year, and he's like, You know what? He's like, you're doing something incredibly special with these women, so why don't you start coaching them and develop your first coaching program? And so that's what I did. So I developed my first coaching program in 2015 to help women like find themselves, find their spark, build their confidence. And it started with this program called Secret Wardrobe, which is taking the items out of your closet that no longer serve you and to really kind of start pouring into yourself. And so this was my life. I quit my corporate job. I was running my studio, I was coaching women, and I also was taking women on these international adventures. So I was taking and traveling with women all over the world. And so I was in such my happy place. I was making an impact. I was helping women, I was connecting and bringing people together, and I was there to help and assist and care for in all of the ways that made me super happy. And I in the studio, I would always have women that would say, Where do I get a Brian? So my husband's name's Brian, and so I had more and more women starting to approach me about dating and dating advice. And I even remember back then, I would take women's phones and I would swipe on their behalf. I'd be like, just give me the 

Robin | Yeah

Cat | Give me the phone, let me see you're doing this wrong. So because I had figured it out for myself, because I had been single for so many years before I found my husband, and so it was 2020 that changed everything for me. Forced my studio to close, but that catapulted my coaching career, which turned into dating coaching. So I had a girlfriend who hired me specifically for dating coaching. And I think to reflect on that time in 2020, a lot of singles at that time, really, it forced them to be like, What am I doing? Like, why am I I really want a relationship. I want to have this in my life. And so I was helping a lot of single women, but just in different ways, and it kind of just really shed light of like, is this an opportunity in which I can really hone in on this one particular thing that I have solved for myself, that I know that I could help women solve? And so late of 2020, I started dating coaching, which led into my podcast, which led into my podcast, which is now called Dear Matchmaker, which led into matchmaking because, as the world was starting to open up, people were like, Oh, we're dating coach. Will do you do matchmaking? And I'm like, is this a thing? Like, is this a service? And again,

Robin | Once you open up to that, those questions, and then you do the research in the world,

Cat | Yes

Robin | Actually, matchmaking is a very big thing.

Cat | It is. And I, my, I was so because I always felt that something was missing. The coaching piece was great. My my clients were having incredible results. But I just felt like, because women would say to me all the time, well, why aren't you helping men? And I'd be like, that's a very valid question, um, and I, of course, was helping women only because that's my comfort zone. That's what I who, that's who I'd been helping for the last seven, eight years, was coaching women, and so I leaned into matchmaking. Found the matchmakers Matchmakers Alliance, found the Global Love Institute, and just like listened to the need of what people wanted from me, and just leaned into it and went with it. And so here I am, yeah, I can't imagine doing anything else. I can't imagine doing anything else, honestly, yeah,

Robin | We had, we have a very similar story on how we became matchmakers, but I'm no longer a matchmaker. I'm doing this, which is, right, yeah, I love, I love the path I'm on, and I feel I'm still in the love business, of course, and it's just in a different way. So, Cat, I listened to, I've been listening to your podcast. It's fantastic, because you just, you really get a sense of who you are, your approach, you're, you're the real deal, like, you know, salt of the earth, very genuine and great, solid advice. So I recommend everybody listen to your your your podcast, Dear Matchmaker, because I think it's fantastic. So you have this episode, the 100th episode, and I listened to it, and I really appreciated this particular episode, because you are because you've been in doing this for, like you said, many years and your belief systems have changed around dating, of relationships and how you're you are translating that to your clients, 

Cat | Yes 

Robin | So one of the great lessons which I learned myself when it came to my partner now who I'm with. I love him so very much. And one of the things is people don't know what they're looking for. They really don't like people are coming to you, and we've all got single friends, and I know I've been in the same boat of going, this is what I want to need in a partner. And you've got your criteria, and you're saying, but most people really don't know. 

Cat | They don't. They really don't

Robin | So let's go into that. How does that? How does that show up with people that you're talking to every day within your office and your clients, and how do you help them come to what actually is what they really need, rather than

Cat | Yeah, right, than what they want, that's right? So I think so one of the things that they teach us is, or that they've taught us, and that they've said is that what we're attracted to is what we're familiar with. And so when people come in with their laundry list of these are the things that I that I want to have, or that I need to have in a partnership or in a person, it's, you know, I this list sometimes isn't your own list. So this list that you've created is a list that society tells you that you should have. Is a list that maybe your friends and family have told you, is a list that you have in a way, where these are certain items in which that are unattainable. So it's a way of form of protection or sabotage from finding that person. So I really true feel that these lists that we have, it's an idea, and I think it's a good jumping off point, but it's not a checklist that this person must have all of these qualities in order to be a good person or a good partner for me and I and I think it's what I've seen, especially in matchmaking, is that people think that what they're looking for is somebody who's also opposite. So I've had people in my office say, you know what, I'm really bad with money, so I would love to find somebody who's good with money so they can teach me how to manage my money, or I'm really introverted but I would love to have somebody to kind of bring me out of my shell and to take me places. Okay, on paper, that sounds fabulous, but I always on the flip side of that will say, does the extrovert always want to drag the introvert everywhere that they go? I mean, what kind of I always help people understand that they're on the there's a flip side, like, think about the other person's perspective, and it is that type of person, is that the type of person who would want to date you? Like what if we're talking about somebody who really takes care of managing their money? Do they want to date somebody who's careless? Probably not. So if there are things, right, if there are things within yourself that you're looking to solve problems or to fill gaps in. You don't seek out a partner to fill those gaps. You fill in those gaps yourself, like even for myself, when I was single, I was so unhappy in my own life, and I was looking for romance and love in a way that a partner would bring that into my life. And one of the things I realized I was like, wait a minute, I that is so much pressure to put onto somebody. Why am I not just doing that myself? Like, why am I not pouring into myself, romancing myself and loving myself? Because if I'm doing that, then the right person, whoever shows up is I? You know, I'm giving, not to sound like woowoo about this, but I'm giving off this great vibration of loving myself and loving my life, and that right partner is going to be attracted to that and so 

Robin | Showing up as your whole loving self, fulfilled self,

Cat | Yes, yes,

Robin | So that you can give your partner, you know, it's like you're overflowing. It's not like you're coming from a place of lack. 

Cat | That's right.

Robin | One of the things that I really appreciated, because our our community, so many of us have been divorced or, you know, have been in long term relationships, and we're looking for their our next relationship, or, you know, we're in our 30s, late 30s, and it's like, so we're coming with a lot of life experience. Okay, so, and you talk about how, like a lot of us, have non negotiables, but they are, but this is a belief system that you may you're, you think you're, this is a non negotiable. So you're actually coming with that on your list, right? I'm not gonna, like, okay, I'm gonna get a great example. One of my best friends is in love and dating this man she's so happy with, and he's a smoker. Okay? And do you think that that was a non negotiable? Hell, it was, it was, it was like, she's like, I never thought I would date a smoker. What the heck man. Like, it's disgusting. There. She still thinks it's disgusting, okay, right? But she loves this man, so they've, they've worked it out, like, he still smokes, but he does, he's know he's working on quitting, but it's not something that was like, if you don't stop smoking, I'm out like, it just wasn't that wasn't the way that she approached it. Because she's like, he comes to me in this relationship was so much that I really want and need in a partner. So do you think smoking is non negotiable? It's no longer non negotiable. 

Cat | That's right. 

Robin | And you and we and you said the same thing about with Brian, right? 

Cat | Yep

Robin | He, like you had non negotiables, which actually, in the long run, did not matter, like he had children, right? Young, a young child, right? 

Cat | Yup 

Robin | Can you tell the story about this Cat? Because I think a lot of us can actually relate to this. And I think it's important. This is a really important one, like your non negotiables may not be non negotiables.

Cat | That's right. And I, when I first, when I first started my matchmaking business, I would start, I would lead off with the non negotiables, and I would, under no circumstances would I match two individuals that had any of the non negotiables on each other's lists. And now I don't even I don't even ask anymore. It's not even 

Robin | Good.

Cat |  It's not even part of the conversation, because non negotiables do come from our own so it's not only like what we think is in our best interest or what someone else thinks is in our best interest, but also it's based off of our previous experiences, right? So our non negotiables is a way of protection, too. So for me, I had right out of the gate when I was going through a divorce, I had dated a man who was also going through a divorce, and in the end, it ended up horribly, actually, and part of it was that he felt that he never had time to, like, be single, and so, like, he was, he was dating other women as we were in a relationship, and his in his explain, you know, the way that he explained it was that, well, I just didn't know. And I was never really single, because I was dating you through my divorce. And so in my head, I was like, okay, well, I don't want that to happen again, so I'm just not going to date a man going through a divorce, because that way that protects me from any potential harm. Basically, not to say that, let's look at all the other red all the other red flags that were there in the very beginning that I chose to not look at. But no, we're going to take away from that that I'm not going to date a man that's going through a divorce, which is fine. And some some people have this non negotiable. So when I so my I too, because I had two teenagers at the time when I met my husband. So my two non negotiables really were, I'm not going to date a man going through a divorce, and I'm not going to date a man with small children because my children were already grown. Ish, and I was like, this

Robin | I think thi is a very common one, Cat, that people will say, 

Cat | Yeah

Robin | I don't want somebody with young children, because if you've got older kids, you're like, I don't want to be dragged back into that era. I'm through it.

Cat | That's right, that's right.

Robin | I can yep, yep.

Cat | And that's, that's where I was at. And when I met my husband, he was going through a divorce. I was his first date, actually going through his divorce, and he had a six year old. Now I had a 15 year old and a 12 year old, and now he has a six year old. And in my mind, I was like, Oh my gosh. Now I had a moment where I was like, this is a compromise I'm willing. Instead of me going, Oh, I'm gonna settle, it was, Is this a compromise that I'm willing to make? And why do I have, why do I have this criteria, and why are these my non negotiables? And does it really matter? And in the end, thank goodness I didn't like push him aside, because he's the best, I mean, he's the he is the best relationship I've ever been in, and I if I would have dismissed him because of these things, I would have passed up an incredible human being. And I'll give you another example. So I have a 65 year old client coaching client that she's 65 she's still working, she's vibrant, she's she's amazing, super smart, beautiful, and we had, I put her online, and one of her non negotiables was dating a man who still had children at home. And you like, I mean, she's 65 and so you say to yourself, okay, well, I can kind of understand, I mean, I can understand that. I mean, that makes sense. Well, now she's in a two month relationship with a 67 year old man who has a 10 year old and a nine year old at home now. And I reminded her. I was like, she started to see him, and I'm like, remember that thing you told me about not wanting to date a guy who still had small children at home? And she's like, he's so worth it. I'm like, exactly, exactly. And I think, to me, there's a definite difference between settling and compromise. Settling is when someone can't fulfill your needs. Compromising is like you have this rulebook and these things that are in your head where you're like, oh, they must be worldly. Okay? I hear this all the time. Must be worldly, okay? He's only traveled to two states. I'm like, but is he open to being worldly? Does he want to travel with you? Like, that's the important piece. Like, can he fill the need to of your desire to travel? If the answer is yes, then the answer is yes. I mean to compromise 

Robin | I think it's taking out. I think, yeah, I think it's taking out. It's taking out the judgment piece, which we are so judgmental. 

Cat | Oh yes

Robin | Human beings, we're judging everything. Black, white, 

Cat | Yes

Robin | Right, good, wrong, 

Cat | Right.

Robin | Yes, no, no, yes, no, right, wrong. And what I've really learned in in this relationship that I'm in is, or, and you talk a lot about this Cat is around, it's changing our belief systems. It's actually letting go of beliefs that are no longer serving us, and being way more open minded and giving people a chance. You know, it's like you're it's like, we can't jump into the future. This is another way that I've totally adjusted and changed. Is like, I'm no longer so future focused. It's like, just be here, be present, and you are, like, loving this person and being and learning so much about yourself and, like, just the time and the joy. Like, why are you focused so much on how things are going to turn out. Like, you know, a year, 2,3,4, years down the road. Like, really, what is that? 

Cat | Right

Robin | Like, what is the rush? There's nothing we need to do. We just have to be with this person. So let's talk about, let's talk about the dating. Because you talk about how dating is a skill. We we know this, right. 

Cat | Yes Yes

Robin | There, there's skills, and dating is a numbers game

Cat | Yes

Robin | Right? 

Cat | It is 

Robin | So you do have to get out there and date. 

Cat | Yup

Robin | So what are you what. And you say, you do say this too. You're like, yeah, we have to be rejected just as much as we are rejecting people. We have to learn about rejection and how that's pretty that's rejection is protection. In my eyes, it's like that person doesn't think you're a fit for them. So yes, please carry on. Yes. Let's talk about how dating is a number game. Numbers came. What do you say to your clients about that? 

Cat | Yeah you know and my stance on that has changed, because initially I was like, you date with intent, and you only say yes if it's a hell yes. But now it's just it by being by watching people and watching the connections that happen it's you have to practice. You have to practice the vulnerability piece of putting yourself in front of someone and getting to know someone for the first time. It's, I mean, it's, and I think to put so much pressure on this person must be the person, because this is the date that I've said yes to. And people start to romanticize what it's going to be like, and start to fantasize in future cast and all of these. You know, the romanticizers out there love to do this, and it puts so much pressure on this complete stranger and this person that you you've never met before, usually. And I mean to me, if you know that there's other options in your and you are putting yourself out there, and you're open to opportunity, and you're saying yes more, and you are having a more steady dating life, then you don't put so much pressure on each encounter that you know to yourself, okay if this person says that we're not a good fit, it's okay, because I know there's going to be someone else, and I think that that's where people really get discouraged is that they say to themselves, Okay, I'm ready to date. I'm ready to put myself out there. They say yes to that first opportunity. They go to that first date, and then it's, let's just say they completely, it's, it's a complete disaster. And then they walk away going, Well, I told you so dating is terrible. This was a terrible date. So I'm no longer going to date anymore. But to me, it's, it's always, the beauty, one of the most beautiful things about dating is this opportunity to learn about yourself. Like every time you get in front of somebody new, you're going to, they're going to bring out some things in you that maybe you never thought were there. You're like, oh, well, that's an interest. That's interesting. I've never seen like this part of me come out, and it by denying yourself dating in a way to where you're viewing yourself, that every time I meet somebody new, there's two things that are going to happen. Number one, I'm going to learn so much about myself. And number two, I'm going to learn more about what I'm looking for, and to not be attached to the outcome, and just to go in being like, I'm going to meet somebody new. This is going to be fantastic. I'm going to meet somebody new. And it's and if it's a no, it just gets you that much closer to the yes. And the rejection is like protection. I 100% agree with that. And the rejection is also redirection. It's both right and right. I always tell people that if someone says no to you, they don't know, they have no idea who you are. They've only known you for two hours. So if they're, if they're a person that's chasing the spark, if they're a person has a certain that checklist right where it has to be all of these things, and you don't meet that criteria, then that's on them, not on you. Like it's not your job to fit into someone else's box. It's your job just to show up as yourself and for that person to see you for who you are. And if you don't fit their criteria, great. That means it's someone else that you're getting that much closer to, the person in which you're gonna find, that person that sees all of your greatness and goes more of that? Please? I'll take more of that, please. That'd be great. So yeah, right

Robin | Okay, so another one you talk about is opening up your age gap,

Cat | Yes, 

Robin | On either. 

Cat | So I also, yeah, so I also would, I would all, I would be firm about like, five years older, five years younger. But I find what I have seen is that I now go about 10 years, so 10 years for a woman, her going up 10 years in age, and then maybe going five years because younger, because what I've seen is, if it's more than 10 years, then the science tells us, then sometimes one partner can turn more into a parental role, not on purpose. It just naturally will happen. And so I feel like that 10 year mark is a really good kind of gage of being like, okay, being open to 10, you know, 10 years older, and maybe for women and five years younger, and then the vice versa for men dating five years older, and then possibly 10 years younger. So yeah, I have expanded the gap just a little bit just because I've seen those age differences, and I see them work, you know, people that are eight,nine ten years apart, and I think that that's okay.

Robin | Yeah, I think so too. You talk about how first impressions count. Of course, they count, but yeah, really. So how is it? Because you're doing so much dating coaching and matchmaking, so, 

Cat | Yeah

Robin | How I want to hear, like, a good example of a story where it's like people are showing up without their like, like, with a bad first impression. I mean, you want to make, you need to make an effort. Every time.

Cat | You have to make an effort. Yes

Robin | There's no room for not, I really do think so. It's investing in this time you're going to share with somebody and first impressions, of course, they count 

Cat | Well you said it earlier, which is, we're we judge, right? We're judge, we judge people all the time. And people have this saying, like, if they can't take me at my worst, and they don't deserve me at my best, or whatever that saying is, and I'm like, Yes, but you can't connect with people at your worst. Like, if you are connecting with people at your worst, usually those are not your good people, right? We want to connect with people initially at our best, because as we get to know someone, and you know that honeymoon period starts to to, you know, fade away, and we start to be more human. We take off the rose colored glasses, usually, after the honeymoon period, and we start to really see this person, where they're like, oh, they have quirks. They have, you know, they like their coffee a certain way. They like to sleep a certain way. Oh, they love, you know, we notice these things about, you know, they're humans. We notice the humanity of of each other, that eventually, by that time, you have already built such an emotional connection with that person, that when you see somebody at their worst, you're like, that's okay, because I've seen you at your best. So like, I'm willing. Let's move through this. Let's, let's move through this rocky time together. I'm there for you. I'm here to but if you connect with somebody at your worst, you can't get past that. It's like, you know, first impressions are everything they say. It only takes seven seconds to make a great first impression. And the way, I hate to compare it to this, but it's like, when you're going for a job interview, right? You don't show up to your job interview, even though do not interview. I'm not saying I I'm not talking about how you conduct the date. I'm just talking about the energy that you bring into the date, right? So when you go in for the job interview, you bring your resume, and you talk about you on your resume, you have all of your accomplishments, all of your awards, all of your successes, all of your you know, all of your degrees, all of these bragging points about you, right? And not only that, but you show up physically like you care that you put effort because you want to make a great first impression. You don't go in there talking about how you didn't get along with your last boss. You don't go in there talking about how you got fired. You don't go in there in your sweatpants and say to yourself, well, if you can't accept this, I mean, this is how I'm normally going to work. So if you can't accept me at this and you don't deserve me, it's the same concept when you go in for that first date. You want to make a great first impression, because everyone and you said it earlier, we're all, we're always looking for things to say, no, we're looking like, we're like, on alert all the time, where we're like, Okay, I'm what? How did they show up? And if you, even if you show up in a way, as if you don't care, you're not putting forth the effort, you're coming in with a negative energy, then you're that person. They can't. They just, they will look at it and go, it's a no, right? Because it shows them that you haven't you don't put enough care. It's not that. And I think this is what I this is, I think this is a point that some people miss, which is, you're not showing up on this date in this way for them. You're not getting you're not putting on makeup for them. You're not getting your hair done for them. You're not putting on those nice shoes for them. You're doing it for yourself because you owe it to yourself to put your best foot forward, so that you are presenting yourself in a way that you feel good, that you feel seen, in a way that they you know, so that when you walk away from that date, you can say, I gave it, you know, I know that I showed up in my best. And if it doesn't work, it's okay. But it's like your energy, of how you feel about yourself also affects how the what the outcome may be on that date. 

Robin | Right

Cat | Sorry, you can tell I'm very passionate about that.

Robin | No, I am too. So you have this formula, the 2,3,5, formula. I really like your formula. So let's what is the 2,3,5, formula? 

Cat | Yes

Robin | The first thing you want to do is ask two questions. 

Cat | That's right 

Robin | Two you want to ask yourself two questions. 

Cat | That's right. So this is, these are for my spark chasers. These are for the people that are like, well, if it's, you know, fireworks and all these things that are supposed to happen on our first daters.

Robin | Spark chasers 

Cat | So this is, this is really for everyone. So the two stands for the two questions you are to ask yourself after the date, which is, am I curious to know more about them? So do you walk away saying, oh, man, that person was really interesting. I I would love to know more. Like there's some things that we touched on, and I'm kind of curious. I would love to know more about them. And the second question is, do I like the version of myself around that person. Because, again, people can bring out different parts of us. They can bring out the more timid, reserved, shy part where we're just kind of more of an observer, or they can bring out the super fun, spunky part of us, like it just depends. And so do you like the version of yourself around that person? And if you like the answer to both those questions, the three stands for you are to give this opportunity three dates, because the first date really isn't a date. It's the awkward kind of can we connect is, you know, am I interested enough? Am I curious enough the second date is really kind of the first date where you're like, okay, now we're comfortable enough with each other that we can start really having some banter and some great conversation and talk about our passions and our hobbies and our interests and the things that light us up. And then by the time the third date, you're going to see and usually by the third date, we're having a little bit more serious conversations, talking about, possibly politics and ex's and those kinds of things. And by the end of the third date, if you feel that you still like the answer those two questions, then to keep leaning in. Now, by the end of the third date, if there's no sparks or chemistry, because I know that that's part of it. I'm not saying that that's not a part of it. If by the end of the third date, then there's no chemistry, then you can say to yourself, Okay, well, I gave it three dates, it just wasn't a good fit, and it's not so much of your time, right? But enough. And I think one of the things about this formula is that, and I always tell my women this, that if it's a, maybe it's a yes, if it's a maybe it's a yes, if you're just like, maybe then that's a yes. It's only a no when it's a no, but if it's a maybe it's a yes. So then the five stands for the your five. The only things that you should be paying attention to in these connections, in these three dates, as you're asking yourself these two questions, is not vanity metrics, like, oh, can I see him you know, us walking side by side on the beach. You know, what would that look like on camera, like, or whatever? You know, people have this these different romantic ideas of what the person's supposed to look like. So these aren't vanity metrics you are to pay attention to. These are your core values. What are your core values? And does this person and represent what you're looking for. So if you are super religious person, it's in your best interest to also, if religion is super important to you and that's one of your core values, it's kind of important to also date somebody who is also has a strong belief system, right? If you're somebody who that security or financial stability is super important to you, and that's one of your values. Then you want to make sure and date somebody who also reflects because, if not, in the end, there's going to be some friction points in that. And so just pay attention to what your five core values are, and knowing those values, asking those sub your those two questions and giving the person three dates. So there's my 2,3,5, yeah

Robin | Yeah. And I think if the if the three dates have gone, even Kate, we even, even you haven't, you're not feeling this overwhelming, like, oh my gosh. I just like, I really want to jump this person's bones. Like, there is so much chemistry. I'm feeling it now. Like, this is good. Um, I think if you're still curious, 

Cat | Yes

Robin | And that you definitely feel good about yourself and their presence, so that the two questions are still really ever present, why not go on the fourth date and the fifth date? Because, as we know, 

Cat | Right

Robin | We do know this from working with clients like over and over again, the chemistry does and can build. 

Cat | Yes, yep.

Robin | Like, and I think, I think all too often, even as, like, you know, especially when we're younger, it's all about chemistry. It's like, oh, my God, that person's so hot. Like, you know, like, that's as a teenager, or, like, early 20s, like, you're thinking, though, like, I can hear my daughter and she's in University. Like, that's all she talks about. Like, when you talk about boys, right? But as we, as we get older, it's like the core values piece is so important. How is this, how this person showing up to other people around you when you're like, you know, walking, you know, I could think about when I was on like, my first date with my partner, it's like we would be walking on the sidewalk. And there was so many things that happened in that hour that we were together that I was like, wow, this is a solid human being, just his behavior and his actions. 

Cat | Yeah

Robin | And you're not going to know this about somebody unless you have first, like, one, date two, date three, date four, date five, date you want to see them in different environments, 

Cat | That's right

Robin | And how they are behaving. Like, that's on paper, where we are something, but it's all about actions and how we're showing up as a human being. So 

Cat | That's right

Robin | That's over that's presented over time. 

Cat | Yes and they've done, they've done a lot of research on it, and people, it's called the mere exposure effect, which means, like, the more you're exposed to somebody actually, and as long as you're liking who you are around that person, that the more you're exposed to them, they actually, they do become more attractive. They do, yeah, over time, yeah

Robin | Definitely, definitely, yeah. Okay, so you, I, let's go through some questions that I know you are being asked or objections, yes, that you are being presented with over and over, right? And it's just like, yeah, prevalent, so like, I don't want to do online dating, Cat, 

Cat | I know

Robin | I want to like, I want to remain like, first of all, there's many reasons why people don't want an online date. They want to remain anonymous, or they live in a small place, or even, even, like, I've got, anyways, I've got a lot of stories that I could share for this, but reasons why people don't want to online date, they're like, date. They're like, I just want to meet somebody in real life.

Cat | Right

Robin | And I, I think that's, that's it's a it's a reason. It's a valid whatever it is. But what, what is your approach when you, when you say to people, I refuse to online date, or I don't want to online date.

Cat | Yeah. So usually when people say that. And I would say 90% of the people do say that when they first walk into my office, where they're just like, I've tried online dating, it doesn't work. I don't want to do it. And then I always ask, why? Like, tell me about your experience. Like, tell me about what happened when you were online dating. Well, usually something, something, something. And then I and then I do a little bit deeper where I'm like, okay, well, what pattern did you see with who you were saying yes to and what was happening on these dates, or what, why were you facing burnout, or what was going on? And usually, in my experience, people online date wrong, completely wrong. There is no manual when you become single that they go, Oh, great, you're single. Here's your manual of how to online date. Here are the websites. This is what you do so many people it's that whole dopamine being addicted to the dopamine, the alerts that are going off. Okay, the maximizer, that's like swiping, swiping, okay, who else is out there, who else is out there, the relation, shopping, about it all right, so it's it's overwhelming and it's underwhelming, and everything in between. And so I educate people really why it is that they're feeling this way? It's not the app fault. It's, it's the user's fault. You don't have boundaries that are in place. You're saying yes to the wrong people. You're texting for way too long. Your profile is not that great. Like, I say that, I'm like, show me your profile, and I'm like, whoa, whoa.

Robin | Yes, we need, we need to do some major adjustments, adjustments here. Yep, 

Cat | Yeah because usually people don't put any mind. They, they it's not mindful. They're just like, so excited to see what's out there, and it's totally human. Of course, I'm single, Ooh, what's out there? Let's meet. Let me hurry up and just upload some photos really quick, and let me just get to swiping so I get it. But the majority of the time, the profiles are not that great. And just like we said before, people are always looking for reasons to say no, and people are so judgmental. Why would you give them an ammunition on your profile for them, for opportunities to say no to.

Robin | Right and so if people just we live in the world like where you don't have to be behind a computer in your phone all day long.

Cat | Right

Robin | We live a real life, like, you know, day to day. So what are some real, tangible, like, ways that people can approach or meet other people in real life? What are you What kind of 

Cat | Yeah okay so

Robin | Just like, navigating life every day, and, like, you know, putting yourself out there. 

Cat | So there's so the first is, it's a lot of these are no brainers to some people. So I'll just kind of go through a list so doing things that make you happy and that you love doing. So what are those activities? What are those hobbies? What are those types of things that you love to do that bring you joy and and that maybe it's something that you've always wanted to explore and have never done, and and you're always waiting for the right opportunity or the right person to go with. Just do it yourself. So is that a travel group? Is that um pottery? Is that a poetry class? Is that a real estate class, especially for my women, if you get, you know, a lot of people, I mean, there's a lot of men that are like, seeking out real estate, you know, real estate, interested in real estate. Is it like find that thing that that you really would love to do or explore more, but that's only half of the equation. The other half of that equation is that, yes, immerse yourself in clubs and organizations and hobbies and interests and things that you can do to meet people in real life, but the second half of that is that you have to be open to have conversation. Like, don't just go to these events expecting people just to walk up to you. If your person who wants to meet somebody organically, my friend, you also have to put in the legwork, meaning, if you see somebody that you're interested in, it's the perfect opportunity go over and introduce yourself like I've had so many women complain to be about men not approaching. And I always say, girl, it's 2024

Robin | It's not up to that, that right there has to go because, 

Cat | Has to go

Robin | That has to go, doesn't have to be men approaching you. It's just right, 

Cat | No, yes

Robin | It has to have to go both ways. 

Cat | It has to go both ways. And so if you're, if you want to meet somebody in real life, and this is in this is what you want, and it wants to be, and you want to be organic with it, I totally get behind it. I mean, that's what matchmaking is. But still put forth the effort, like enroll in the thing. But then also, as you go into it, say to yourself, okay, I'm going to go into this I'm going to go into this event, and I'm going to prom, I'm going to make a promise to myself that I'm going to sign up for this pottery class, and I'm going to meet three new people in this pottery class. And I think the mindset too, that you need to have is that it's not just in the people that you meet, but these people that you meet might know someone, right? So it's not just I'm gonna join this. I'm only gonna join singles organizations or singles clubs or whatever, which those are great too. But make some new friends, and then those friends might know somebody who's single, who's like, oh, you know what, I have the single friend who you might be a really good match for. So expanding your network as much as you possibly can. So if you're wanting to meet people in real life, it's really up to you, truly, 

Robin | Yes, and I think that, 

Cat | And not just the grocery store where you're reaching for the same orange. Sorry

Robin | Right right, but I do think it's Be your own matchmaker. Ask your people around you. It doesn't matter who you're 

Cat | Yes that too.

Robin | Who do you know that single that you think you you may want to reduce me to you don't know until you ask. Start asking people. Just keep, keep talking about it. Keep asking, right? Yeah. I always say people that do that. But why not? 

Cat | I always tell people, do people know that you're open for business? Like, do people know that? 

Robin | Oh that's good yeah

Cat | Like, tell them that you're open. Yeah

Robin | Yes. So before we, before we close with a blessing, I want to hear like one of your most recent, like success stories, so that we can all, you know, we all love a love story.

Cat | I know, um, oh gosh, okay, so I just had, I just had so once my clients, I always say they graduate. So once they graduate they have an opportunity to just connect with me and to give an update. And so I had a woman who came to me for both matchmaking and for dating coaching both. So she wanted to online date as we were matchmaking, and I helped her with her profile, I told her exactly what she should and should not be paying attention to. She went home that night and swiped and connected with a guy and started I didn't even get a chance to match her. Started dating this guy, and as she was dating him, we were doing these little touch points of making sure she wasn't getting in the way, making sure she was paying attention to all of the right things and not sabotaging it, because she was one of those women that loved the bad guy would date men who were emotionally unavailable, and this was a guy who was showing up, who was and so I was trying to get her to not push him away. Like, don't push him away. They just got engaged, just like a few months ago. And so I'm so happy for So, yeah, that's my that's like the biggest success story in the last couple months. So yeah

Robin | I really like that story. I mean, these are things that she made an adjustment to her online profile that made a huge difference in the people that she was even meeting, right? 

Cat | Yes 

Robin | She met her partner online, 

Cat | Yep.

Robin | And I also really like the fact that you were her ally, ally, and coach would like 

Cat | Yes 

Robin | Okay, you could, don't sabotage this, do this. You know, I really appreciate the fact that you were coaching her throughout, because I think that that's probably excellent. I think more people need to hire a dating coach. Like, I really.

Cat | I agree. Yes, yes, no, I agree. I mean, I mean, it's, it's, you know, I think that, again, it's the permission, it's the permission that people need to have like you're not. I always say there are two things that are assumed when we leave the house, number one, that we know how to manage money, and number two, that we know how to manage our love life, and we don't know how to do either. We don't. We screw up how we manage our money and and our love life, and yet, these are the two things in in life, money and love that are the most important, and yet the two areas of our life that we refuse to ask for help for. Why?

Robin | Wow that's awesome. Cat. So your website is the heart agency.

Cat | Yeah

Robin | I love it. 

Cat | It's heartagency.com, and 

Robin | Yes

Cat | And, well, there's a new website, which is called Scottsdalematchmaker.com so there's two of them, yeah,

Robin | Okay. Well, I hope that people reach out to you, and I hope so you're just such a treat to talk to. And I love connecting with you and and I always learn so much. So thank you, 

Cat | Yes thank you for having me. I loved being here. Thank you so much.

Robin | I'm going to close with a blessing for us and for our listeners. And this is really based on all that you teach and you you help your clients with. So may we let go of our past. Our past lives are a part of our story. They do not define us. Today gives us an opportunity to create a new story. May we be open minded, may we change our minds and rid ourselves of old beliefs that no longer serve us, and may we remember life is a journey of learning and growth. By practicing new skills and relating, we can approach our dating lives with more confidence and enthusiasm and also remember the dating can be fun. We didn't talk about the funness, right? Thank you dear Cat Cantrill for being with us today and for all the wisdom you shared.

Cat | Thank you so so wonderful to be here. Thank you again.