Case Kenny - Living Boldly & Authentically

This week on Let’s Talk Love, Robin Ducharme sits down with Case Kenny to discuss his book, "That's Bold of You," and explore the power of mindfulness and practical self-awareness. Case emphasizes the importance of simplicity and reframing our approach to personal growth. He believes that embracing vulnerability and questioning our thoughts can lead to personal transformation and a more fulfilling life.

In this engaging conversation, Robin and Case share ideas on self-awareness, including the importance of challenging assumptions, changing our beliefs and taking bold action. They discuss embracing our flaws and superpowers, navigating the challenges of online dating, and the negative impact of comparison and envy. 

Together, they highlight how speaking up and leaning into vulnerability can lead to positive outcomes. This thoughtful episode provides practical advice and actionable steps for personal growth, helping you live a more mindful and nurturing life.

Takeaways:

• Mindfulness means being present with your feelings and accepting them as they are.
• Simplicity is a luxury and the foundation of peace and confidence.
• Turn adjectives into verbs to focus on actions within your control.
• Question your thoughts and beliefs to keep your mindset up-to-date.
• Be open-hearted, care deeply, and communicate effectively.
• Vulnerability leads to personal transformation and fulfillment. Embrace your flaws and superpowers and be mindful of how they show up in your life.
• Challenge limiting assumptions and beliefs to unlock your potential and happiness.
• Take bold actions and embrace difficult tasks to grow and expand your comfort zone.
• Avoid comparing yourself to others; it often leads to feelings of inadequacy and unhappiness.
• Practice open and honest communication in relationships, and don’t hesitate to ask for what you need.
• Focus on the positive aspects of your life and appreciate the challenges that have shaped you.
• Embrace vulnerability as a superpower and recognize the beauty in being authentic and true to yourself.

That’s Bold of You: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BRHYQTZK?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social

New Mindset, Who Dis? Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/new-mindset-who-dis/id1383599078?utm_source=hoobe&utm_medium=social

We want to hear from you! Send us your anonymous questions for the Podcast as well as our weekly IG Live Ask The Experts Q&A. https://realloveready.com/submitaquestion

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Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready

Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Hello everyone and welcome to Let's Talk Love. I'm Robin Ducharme. And I am so happy to be welcoming our guest Case. Kenny today. Thanks for being with us Case from Miami.

Case Kenny | Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. This is, this will be great. I'm excited.

Robin Ducharme | It is great. I had a lot of fun.lListening to your book and reading your book. I love having both the physical copy as well as listening to you, you narrated  narrated your own book. Thank you very much for that, because sometimes authors don't. And it's great. It's great to have your voice come across and your humor and your wit and I thought it was an excellent book. Absolutely so much.

Case Kenny | Thank you so.  Well, thank you. 

Robin Ducharme | Tell me what have you got reviews been? Because I know you've got a huge audience on your podcast. And you've written other books. But tell me what's the experience been?

Case Kenny | Well, I think it aligns with my general experience on the internet, which is like, I feel like sometimes I'm the exception. Everyone's so nice to me. Like, I get

Robin Ducharme | Well I hope so.

Case | I get hate occasionally, of course, but it's like everyone is just so supportive. So I sometimes honestly feel like I'm in la la land. So everyone has been very supportive of the book. I mean, I've been on the Today show talking about it, like, I released it almost like a year and a half ago, and even like, I'm selling more copies now than I was in the beginning. So yeah, you know, not to toot my horn, but it's just been a great experience. I'm glad that people resonate with it, you know, writing a book, it isn't about me, it's about people, and you know, serving them the best I can and seems to do that, and people enjoy it. And yeah, you know, came from my heart and my experience. So it's easy, it's easy to write things like that you're not trying to be someone you're not, you know, it's not the end reinventing the wheel with it. It's simple. And I think people appreciate that. Because I like simple. So yeah, it's been great.

Robin | And that's one of the things you talked about in the book is, is bringing more. It's not necessarily it's not so much about being better, or having more it's about which I appreciate. I'm at a place in my life right now I want to bring more simplicity into my life, and that so it's maybe about creating a different life and more simple, more simplicity, rather than more and better. That was like, really one of the underlying messages. 

Case | And yeah. I sure think so. I mean, I'm always for like doing better in the sense of like, doing better than yourself yesterday. But I mean, we get we you and I could probably talk for an hour here about the pressure and just human, just, you know, how we're conditioned to always want more of something and better versions of something. And I think a lot of that comes from the other topics of comparison and, you know, insecurity and things like that. But, you know, I don't know if it's me getting into my mid 30s, or it just really learning to practice what I preach and doing all these things, but I think simplicity is is is luxury. And I'm not talking about simplicity in the sense of like being boring. I'm just talking in the sense of being secure in who you are and what you have. And not feeling doubt. Because there's always a bigger version, or someone who has more money, or someone who's better looking or whatever it may be. I just think we're not on on this earth to always be chasing that. And I think coming home to a simpler version of yourself. And, you know, while also having mile high ambitions and holding yourself and your friends and your partner to high standards, but just craving that simplicity over blindly chasing more. I think that's a gift. And it gives you all the other things that you want peace and confidence. And so it's kind of the foundation for them.

Robin | Yeah. Okay, so your book is called That's Bold of You, How to Thrive as Your Most Vibrant, Weird and Real Self. I wore my bold shirt today, just for this Case, well it's kind of bold. 

Case | That's amazing, that's a great shirt. 

Robin | Thank you.

Case | I'm not qualified to give a great review, it's a solid shirt looks like a great shirt. 

Robin | So I nop but really, I dare first want to ask you about your audience who is your demographic because I read your book, and I got so much out of this. And I was talking about one of my best friends, my best friend Kirst and I work together, we read the books. We study, you know, we look at all the people we're going to talk to and learn from you. And then get together and be like, what did you get? What did you glean from the book and from Case this week? And we're both like there was a lot of great reminders like we're both in our mid 40s both mothers you know, a lot of things that we have in common. But I wonder out of the millions of people that that you are talking to that relate to you that are your that are influenced by you. Who are your what's your demographic? Like who are the people that you are really coaching?

Case | Yeah, well, I would say in general, I don't like try to write for a particular person. I've always written for me, and I've always spoken for me the outcome of that S has been that it's a lot of women as as a demographic. 

Robin | Yeah. 

Case | As a more like psychographic, though. It's, you know, people who, you know, just want to make sure that they have a point of view in life. You know, I find a lot of people come to me after breakups, men and women, because that's a confusing time and they don't know like, what is my truth any longer? What is my identity any longer? So I see that a lot. I see a lot of people come to my writing and podcast, just that crossroads in life, new beginnings, you know, traumas things like that. And I think that's great. You know, a lot of women, you know, I love the women who support me, or they're so vocal and have aided me immensely. A lot of men support me as well, there's not as vocal and I think, you know, we can have a conversation around why that's the case. But yeah, I think somewhere in there is, you know, the universal truth of, you know, people want clarity in their lives. And my content isn't designed to give people clarity, it's to give people questions in perspective, so that they can create their own clarity. And, you know, it's been great to see that go in different directions. Like this past weekend, I was in Las Vegas, speaking for the Raiders, and NFL teams, so all grown men, huge adult men. And that was really cool. And I've done you know, I do a lot of speaking, I speak to women's groups and do other things. But it's always, it's always the same thing. And we always end up having the same conversation. So there's such a universality to the, to the message. At this point, I just speak to the need, you know, not a particular group or anything.

Robin | Right. There, there are a lot of universal messages in your work in your book. So tell me what is you are a mindfulness, you've been practicing mindfulness for a lot of years. And you talk about mindfulness being practical self awareness. So I think mindfulness can be looked at in such in many different ways. So tell us from your perspective, what what is mindfulness mean to you? And how do you practice that and like, so it's practical self awareness can you describe that for us?

Case | For sure. Yeah, mindfulness is one of those things where there's no right definition. 

Robin | No 

 Case | There's no wrong definition. So it's fantastic. You know, I think about myself in my 20s, I used to be, I wouldn't say like anti mindfulness or anything or anti self help. I was just always like a little bit of synthesis, like who are people to tell me what to do. You hear things like mindfulness and meditation, and you start hearing the folks talk about vibrations and attracting abundance. And it always, it honestly always seems so cheesy to me, because it never seemed to be backed by like a point of truth, or a point of reference, it always seems so just like Lo di, da. And I think that turned me off from it for a while, and perhaps other people too. And what I realized, you know, is to what you just said, as well, it's like, mindfulness is the most practical thing in the world. And the the point that I've added to it, like we can mostly agree that mindfulness in some form or another is the art of being present in your feelings. It's the art of accepting your feelings. It's the art of radical presence in your emotions, putting your feelings on trial, examining them not running from them, I think that's a great definition, listening to yourself. The thing that I'm passionate about, that I try to bring through my writing on Instagram, on the podcast is that that doesn't really exhibit the true value of a mindfulness practice, or mindfulness as a whole. Mindfulness is listening to yourself. But more importantly, it's learning to talk to yourself. And that's what I'm all about, like, because if you're only listening to yourself, there's a lot of great value there. And that's a huge part of the process, you have to be grounded and saying, I feel this way, here's where it's coming from, let's get real and vulnerable. But a lot of our thoughts are crap. Like, if you're into any, like work on consciousness, or Michael Singer, like, we're not necessarily originating a lot of our thoughts and feelings, but a lot of them are bogus, and we're just receiving them, it's our job to listen to them, and then figure out what to do with them. And that figuring out what to do can take many different forms. The form that I gravitate towards, for its practicality, is putting human language behind it, in an uplifting way. I mean, I feel like my work is pretty pointed in its effort is to spread optimism. And it's to do with relatable language. And that's learning to talk to yourself and you could boil that down and call it you know, working on your internal dialogue or whatever it may be. But for me, mindfulness is the art of listening to yourself and talking to yourself. And I feel like it's such an essential, essential thing. You know, you talk to psychologists nowadays and they they are very, they're wary of only listening to yourself, they call it you know, rumination and like the the challenge the you know, the way that if you're always ruminating on your problems, the additional weight that you give to them, so we have to find a balance between listening and talking and for me, I'm not a psychologist, and I'm not here to help people here. heal their traumas or anything necessarily like that, I'm here to help people find human language within their listening to provide them with a light and a path forward. And to me, it's that simple. It just requires a very practical approach, which for me is journaling. Like, that's, that's my entire approach to it. But it's listening to yourself, and it's talking to yourself.

Robin | And I like how you say that Case, it's, um, it's also using the right language. So and you say, in the book, too, it's not just about affirmations, because we can all put stuff on the mirror, or make little notes around, affirming what we want. I want to be confident, you are enough, these these these things, right that we have, we can say to ourselves, but what would be but you talk about reframing it in a way that is more, more true or more actionable, right? 

Case | Yeah

Robin | So for example, if you get let's say, you do want to be a confident, loving, kind, conscientious person, and successful, what would you  how do you talk and talk to yourself, so that you are saying it in a way that is more actionable?

Case | Yeah, biggest thing talking about the language use and as an author who I spent, I spent all day every day thinking about words and how to reflect certain ideas. I'm really not a fan of adjectives. Like I'm at war with adjectives because of their lack of permanence and control. Like, if we're always saying, I want to be confident, or I want to be happy, or I want to be successful, I think we're setting ourselves up for some frustration, because those are all things that can be taken from us, someone could do something painful to us, that makes us feel insecure, not confident, someone can break up with us happiness to unhappiness, someone could not give us that deal at our sales job, we're no longer successful, we can't control those things. And if we shape an identity around being happy, or being successful, or being confident, will then tip to our way into humanness, which we start identifying by those things. I guess I'm not a happy person, I guess I'm unsec and not successful, I guess I'm insecure. So I'm big on just like going back to square one about the way that we describe ourselves. And it's one of the general exercises I like to take people through. It's reframing adjectives to verbs like what are the things you can control for being successful, for instance, and say, instead of saying, I want to be successful, or am successful, you say, I'm the kind of person who, and then you describe it with verbs that no one can take from you. Right? I'm the kind of person who will say you're working nine to five, I'm the kind of person who always shows up on time, who goes above and beyond who makes 100 phone calls a day who, whatever your business KPIs are, no one can take those things from you, the outcome might vary, but no one can take the action from you. And same with like, I want to be loved, for instance, okay, well, I'm the kind of person who will, what are the things that you do that will lead to that, while I'm the kind of person who's willing to love first, I'm the kind of person who doesn't hold back, I'm, you know, so on and so forth. And it's a little bit cheesy, but I've just seen for me, you know, when I've shifted my my goal in life from being happy, or whatever it may be to this. You know, it doesn't necessarily change the timeline. But it makes me so much happier along the way, because I'm actually controlling those things. Because I have evidence that those things will lead me to the thing I want. So I think, you know, mindfulness a lot of the times is evidence going through, I have lived through a therefore I believe B let me do more of C so that D could be the direction I go. And so I think a lot of mindfulness is based on evidence, and then what you can control and using that to construct your internal dialogue, as opposed to some of the more, you know, ethereal stuff of I am light and goodness, and I attract and, you know, we can control that. And so, yeah, I like doing that. And you know, sometimes mindfulness certainly is a sensitive thing. It's all about vulnerability, but it's also about just doing and verbing. And constructing your identity around those things. Because you can control them. 

Robin | Yes. It's also you're reminding people to question your thoughts I was thinking about, I relate that to Byron Katie. It's like, right, how she she says like, is that true? Yeah, you keep asking the question like, so you're, you're questioning your own thoughts, like you said, it's like, your thoughts, maybe somebody else's thoughts like we're, we're so connected to each other. You could be thinking somebody's somebody else's stuff, and it's not even yours, but you are totally internalizing it as yours.

Case | Reality. I mean, that's like that is your life's work. And hopefully you do it early and often, but like, I lead a lot of these journaling sessions and like the whole point of journaling, for instance, or really any mindful practice that is a self q&a. The purpose of that is to update your belief  systems, because first of all, you're an entirely different person when you're 20,25 30,30 40 45. But for me, I'm a different man, today at 36 than I was a 33, and so on and so forth. If I'm not stopping, and updating my belief systems, my aspirations my ambitions. The reality is I'm probably living someone else's, does not mean I'm a bad person at all. It just means we're doing what comes naturally to humans, which is emulate and copy and sprout and be inspired. But, you know, I do. One of the questions that I like to ask is a variety of that is what if I'm wrong in a take a belief that you've had for a while, something that you like, this belief does not make me feel great about myself, right? I'm falling behind, I'm unlovable, I'll never be successful, whatever it is. And then ask yourself, what if I'm wrong? Like, what if I'm wrong about that thing, then what would the next logical step be? Well, if I'm wrong about being unlovable, then that would mean that there's a partner out there who would love me for everything I have to offer. Well, then what would that mean? Well, then I should probably showcase what I have to offer. And then what would that mean? Like, there's just a whole line of logic that you could follow that changes your life, if you're willing to go back to the first step. But often we, we don't go there. Instead, we go to the end of feeling unlovable. And that's where it gets messy, instead of going back to the beginning of asking yourself, What if I'm wrong? 

Robin | Yes. And I really appreciate what you said about changing our beliefs. Because that shows that is so important, is not sticking to what we know to be true, or what we, you know, getting our I understand, we're all gonna have opinions about things. But I do want to be questioning myself, I do want to be growing and changing. And that means changing my belief systems, because I want to understand, one of the things that I have been doing way more in my day to day life, with my relationships, is really seeking to understand before wanting to be understood, that is that's an that's a mindfulness practice right there. Because if we can make assumptions around what people are thinking about us, or what they're doing their actions that are maybe affecting us. But really, it's like asking the questions, rather than jumping to conclusions, which is around shifting beliefs, and giving the other person the benefit of the doubt.

Case | Yeah  

Robin | It's just, there's, there's a whole bunch of stuff. 

Case | I love that I think that's so important, and honestly rare and refreshing, because there's a whole side of the internet that is just increasingly savage, like, if you're up to date on like, meme culture, and like, inspirational quote, culture. And no, there's all these quotes around how whoever cares first loses. I don't give first I only match like you get what you give. I just I think it's so backwards. And I did write about it in the book, I believe.

Robin | You did write about it in the book. You care more like you. That's what you like. Boldness includes caring more, and having you don't want that regret, right? Go for it. 

Case | Because the whole thinking is misguided from the beginning. We think that caring less matching energy instead of giving first we think that it's a power move, we think that it gives us more power, and we think it protects us. But it take a step back and you realize how flawed that is and how hypocritical that is, like we think that oh, that that gives me more power, because now I'll see what they do. And then I'll make the decision, you are stripped of all your power the second that you decide that you're always waiting for someone else to act for you to decide what to do with that person. It's an insane mentality. I of course understand why we do it. Because some experience in our past where we gave first, where we were trusting first where we effort it to understand first instead of being understood, and then it was thrown in our face and hurt us. We're trying to protect ourselves, like humans, are we're wired to be hurt once and then do everything in our power to avoid having a be a second time. But you know, mindfulness in this sense would be you know, what if I'm wrong, and really challenging yourself to see what power and protection really is, like, I don't know what even wrote the book. I didn't do a chapter on boundaries. I have a chapter in my upcoming book about boundaries. You know, the idea that oh, okay, a boundary is about protection. It's about withdrawing. It's about keeping a distance. It's about doing all these things where, for me, I think a boundary is the opposite. It's about allowing yourself to get as close as humanly possible but to have a boundary AKA a standard that says if I see this then I do this, not the other way around of you know keeping yourself safe until they do something and then you do something No, you go all in you give everything you got, but you've got this, this strength and this bubble around you that says once that is not reciprocated, respected, understood, whatever, then I do this. So many of us have a boundary should be that it brings more into your life, not less. But I'd say the majority of the Internet has the other way around. You need strong standard and strong boundaries, which means you say no, as often as humanly possible. And you are the prize. And you say, no, no, no. And I'm a big fan of no, but the you say no after you say yes. And I think I just I don't know, I feel like we missed that point a lot out of the idea of being powerful and protected. But the reality is, you're, you're basically waiting for permission for continuing the P alliteration there. It's not it's not power, it's not protection. It's giving up it's giving. It's asking for permission. 

Robin | Yes. I agree with you. It's a power move. I also, I think that if you are doing things, the word manipulation came to mind, like you are, you're you're trying to manipulate people and situations, what to protect yourself or to create an outcome that you that you're trying to manipulate. So it's not being open hearted and, and vulnerable, you talk a lot about vulnerable vulnerability in your book, and how a lot of us aren't taught how to be vulnerable. We don't have that skill, but it's a skill that you can learn. And, you know, you go into the studies around vulnerability how we we adore and we look up to people that are vulnerable. But we ourselves have a hard time with that a lot of us, right? Because we're judging, we're judging ourselves going people aren't going to like my vulnerability, I want you to be vulnerable, because I really, I think that that's amazingly beautiful. But if we actually have the wrong perception around people looking at our vulnerability in a negative way,

Case | 100% I mean, I think I give a lot of examples in the book, including that the beautiful mess effect, which basically prescribes how hypocritical we are, not because we're idiots, or stupid or anything like that. It's just literally, because that's the way we're wired. Like, we're just strangely negative about ourselves, about the same qualities that we love in other people. You know, you meet someone at a party, and you're like, wow, that person is quirky and out there and kind of crazy, but I love it, like, awesome, how refreshing is that, and then you're like, if I were to be quirky, and outrageous, and out there, everyone would hate me. And I would lose all my friends, and yada yada, so I won't do that. And it comes, it's the same with more vanilla traits, like, man, it's so refreshing when someone's honest with me on a first date, instead of lying to me, but I can't be honest on a first date, because, you know, that'd be too much into extra I, I can't say that I'm dating for marriage on a first date, that's crazy, they're gonna think I'm a crazy person. But the same behavior in someone else, we we applaud, I think there's a lot there of course, that can range from insecurity to something in your childhood or adolescence or to, you know, some void, and you could use all the therapy language you want. But at the end of the day, it is an oddly hypocritical thing that we do. And we need to not do it. Either sometimes, it's as simple as understanding, you know, the way that we give kindness to other people on the surface, but withhold that from ourselves. So unnecessarily, and, you know, just doing it, like I you know, as much as like, we could sit here and talk about how, you know, mindfulness is a softening of the soul. And, you know, it's an acceptance of yourself. Sometimes I refer to it as like brute force mindfulness, it's, you just do the thing. You do the thing. You'd be cringy be awkward, you'd be embarrassed, you do the thing. I think I have a chapter in there. If not, I wrote it somewhere else about, you know, only good things can happen to you when you're vulnerable. When you speak up,

Robin | Yes and bold 

Case | You either get what you want, or you get what you need. And both things serve you every single time you get what you want. That is you speak up and yourself or you ask a question of clarity. They give you the answer you want. They're like, thanks for asking that we're on the same page. Or they say no, forget it. I don't want to date you and you got what you need. And now you're free to go out and get what you deserve. Either way, speaking up, always serves you. And I think 99% of our problems can be solved with communication, which, you know, we're not going to solve the world's problems with just that statement. But I really do think leaning into vulnerability in the form of conversations is is going to solve a lot of your problems. The ones that are downstream, right insecurity doubt feeling like you're falling behind all these things. It's it starts with your willingness to be vulnerable.

Robin | Yep. So I really liked this part of both the book Case where you talk about superpowers, we all have superpowers. And but on the on the flip side of our superpowers is our flaws very, very often, right? But we don't want to as humans, like you said, we're super hyper critical of ourselves. So we don't want to identify our flaws number one, or sharing them with people are like great, because we're, of course we're all flawed. Are you kidding me. Like we're all good. And there's like lots of stuff that we got to work on are just like who we are. It's just human nature. But I really liked this. I was like thinking about myself. I'm like, okay, Robin, like, What things are you naturally good at? Like, what are your superpowers? What are you just like? Like your gifts, right? And then okay, what's the flip side of that? So and so I figured I figured out at least one or two this week, like, it's not that 

Case | That's great 

Robin | I didn't know, but like, it's really good to be mindful about it, you know? 

Case | Yeah.

Robin | And I,but and I was talking to my boyfriend about this, because I have kind of said to myself and other people a lot in my life that I'm impatient. Like, I like to get shit done. And it's like, I and when stuffs gonna slow, slow pace in my life. I'm like, Come on, let's go. Let's go. Right? Like I want to see, like something coming back, like from my actions or whatever. Okay? But that doesn't mean that I'm like, a super impatient person all the time. Like, I, I'm pretty chill like in, in life settings. Let's just say like, I'm not like, demanding something in a restaurant, like no way. Like, I don't, I don't go around doing that. So maybe it's more the flip side of my get er done and be determination is the flaw is more like, I have a hard time being quite chill, and relaxed and being like, just having more space in my life. So that is what I'm actually working on recently, is having more space and peace, and downtime and rest.

Case | Yeah. And I. And that is, first of all, me too. If you were to ask me mine, I would say inpatients as well. Yeah, I mean, I think it just backs up the idea of the need for balance for one. And just like, you think about it, like I was never good at science so this might be off base. But it's like every react, everything you do has a reaction down the line. Right. So if you are a kind person, and kindness is who you are, it's not a tactic. It's not a strategy is genuinely who you are. There is always going to be a downside to these things. And I'm a huge glass half full optimist. I'm not being like, 

Robin | Me too like overflowing

Case | Right

Robin | Yeah

Case | Just pour more. But like, you got to understand that yeah, there will inevitably be people who try to take advantage of it, there will be people who misunderstand you, there will be people who call you naive. That is always a reality. Same with like impatience, for instance, like I'm an impatient person, which means I tried to do a lot, which does mean I get a lot of shit done. But at the same time, it often makes me feel like I'm falling behind balance, there will always be the case, 

Robin | Right

Case | The what is what do we do with that piece of information? Well, I think it just matters now which one we focus on, if we're always focused on the ladder, about how people take advantage of kindness about how I always feel like I'm falling behind, will then continue to find more evidence of that, and that will become our identity. So you know, I'm not really that guy who says happiness is a choice. I lean towards that, of course. But I think there is a lot to be said about where we focus our thoughts within the balance of life, which will always be good and bad, half full and half empty, right. It's the same thing, but it's just depending on your point of view. And I think we just need to understand that and make a decision to focus on one or the other, and then realize psychology 101, about how we will then go out into the world and find support of that. Which would you rather find supportive that your kindness is valid, and a powerful thing and a superpower? Or that it's something that you need to give up because there's mean people out there who are spiteful and looking to take advantage of it, you could find evidence of either which one, I choose the more optimistic one. Not everyone can do that at the flip of a switch, but I think we could all realize that there's a balance and understanding where the balance comes from, as opposed to just believing that one is good, and one is inevitable, I think can really really serve us.

Robin | Yeah. I really like that. Okay, so I know we you touched it about dating in the beginning. And I wanted to talk to you about this because in the book, and you said you know, you've got a lot of people that are that you're in touch with that are talking to you about their dating stories and how, like, I think online dating, there's a big you know, there's there's a lot of good, you know, I met my I met my boyfriend on online dating, and past partners. So I think there can be great success with online dating. But I think there's also some issues big time or just maybe it's how people are showing up in general. Right? They're not they're not shooting their shot or they're not. And so two of the commonalities between my best friend Kirsten and I, we were talking about our online dating experience is not is is this lack of good communication? Or maybe not being bold, like you said in your book, that's bold of you, like Be bold, take that risk. And both my boyfriend as well as the person that Kirsten is dating right now said that women weren't messaging the men. Like they both said like, nobody messaged me, like, you're the you're the first one to ever, like comment on a picture and be like, Hey, how's your day going? Oh, I really liked that or ask a question. So people aren't. Do you hear that a lot Case around around that that experience like people are just kind of like laissez faire, like, like your little heart, and hope it goes well, like, well, how are you gonna get the result of putting in the effort?

Case | Yeah, I try to stay on top of this kind of topic as much as I can. And there's so many different sides of the internet. And people right their sides that say women have all the power and online dating their sizes, say men have all the power I don't, I'm not into like men versus women. I do know that in in talking with a lot of men and women, I think, you know, sometimes for, for women, I'm a big fan of traditional gender roles. I'm a big fan of men taking the lead and doing during the thing, I think that's great. I don't, you know, there's no problem for a woman to make the first quote, move, we're putting it in quotes, by sending a DM making a comment and then letting the guy lead. There's no problem with that. And I would say, you know, the majority of men don't get compliments. You know, I always used to make the joke that I've worn the same shirt for a decade, because, you know, when I was 22, some girl complimented it like, guys just don't get a lot of compliments. So as a woman, if you're interested in a guy, you can set yourself so apart so quickly by just a quick compliment, or not even a compliment, just making a first statement or a first comment. And that's the high level very basic thing. I'm not a big like, give daily tactical dating advice kind of guy like, whatever. But I think there's also something there to be said about like, you know, this idea of men or women thinking that like eagerness or transparency is not romantic, like this thing that well, my partner should just know or my soulmate, I'll bump into them, and it will just become this magical thing and no effort is required. Like, I think the sexiest thing in the world is, is feedback and saying, This makes me feel loved, or I like it when you do this, or this, that and the other. That is, we have a lot of people and sometimes women, they say that, well, that's not romantic, he should just know that, for instance. 

Robin | You're not a mind reader

Case | And I and I know we're not people for saying that. It's just so misguided, because someone who's trying to love you. If you think about what someone gives, when they're loving someone, they give what they know, they give what they have, and they give what they used to give their former partner. They're just trying to make educated guesses that making you feel love, they genuinely want to love you. But the only way to truly love you in a way that makes you feel loved because there's a huge difference between being loved and feeling loved. A lot of difficult conversations there. But the only way to find the discrepancy between the two is to say, hey, this makes me feel loved. I really like it when you do this, that and the other. And someone who wants to love you will be so grateful for that. And they'll say, well, thank you so much for giving me this thing. You just told me how to love you. Now I'm going to do it. What is more romantic than receiving feedback and then actually doing it? So I think we need to get out of this weird headspace where we think that a soulmate, a true romantic requires no guidance, and that they should just know, I think that is such a a fast trip zone to having these standards that that can never be achieved. So yeah. So back to the communication idea. It's also that but yeah, maybe that answers your question. I can go on and on about that.

Robin | I think what I think what it comes down to is, the more transparent and honest you can be and kindness, of course has to be the thread throughout all of this. Even just like I just think this whole thing about ghosting, give me a break. You know what you you want to treat people the way you want to be treated, right? The golden rule. Let's just keep that going in the world, please people. Like if you're not into somebody, it's just like, you can see it very kindly. Like thank you so much for our date. I'm I don't think this is your my person. But I really wish you well. It's that easy, and very kind.

Case | Oh, one would think?

Robin | Well, it's not easy. It may not be easy. Okay. But it is kind and it's how you would want your treated.

 Case | Yeah, yeah. And from there, you accept it and you move on with your life. You do not try to convince them otherwise you don't haggle, you don't negotiate. You don't do any of that nonsense. And you're thankful that that they did it so you don't waste any more time. So yeah, I mean, we're in a midst of of all that kind of stuff. But I think it's important to take all that in stride, like, dating apps are amazing. What a crazy time to be alive, where if you want to meet a partner, you could do so from your sofa, without requiring someone to introduce you without any of this nonsense. At the same time, it is filled with nonsense. So again, we're talking about balance, everything is about balance. And then from there, it's about what you choose to believe. Like i i stay on social media a lot just for the purpose of, you know, trying to keep my pulse the finger on the pulse of culture and dating, and there's just so many people that live in the extremes. They've been hurt by a couple of people. They've been ghosted a few times, they had a couple bad dating stories. And now all of a sudden, all men are garbage. All women are crazy, whatever it is, and there's no room for goodness in there. So you know, it is I hate to be that guy who was like, it's all about the story you tell yourself. But if you're telling yourself a story, that every man is garbage, and every man will lie to you, or every woman's crazy, and every woman will cheat on you, What room are you leaving, in reality, that would be the opposite of that. Like, I'm not a huge, like spiritual manifester kind of guy, because again, I'm still a little hesitant on words like abundance and things like that. But I do believe strongly in the idea of manifestation, which is simply the aligning of what you tell yourself, and what you want reality to give you. If you tell yourself that no one is capable of loving you, because everyone is shit and everyone's a liar. Logically, it does not make sense that you could then walk out of your home and into reality and expect something different. Like, logically, we just can't say that that would exist, you can't tell yourself one story, and then hope that the opposite is out there for you, we have to tell ourselves the same story no matter if it's difficult, no matter if it's the opposite of what our past experiences have told us, we have to find a way to dig deep and believe in that. And I just find a lot of people don't right now, which kind of makes me a little bit sad. And I'm actually working on a new book that's coming out next year that goes back to the very as early as we possibly can to really re-evaluate why love in general. But I think we really do need to check ourselves and not fall into those camps of all this or all that or inevitability, this or whatever it may be, I think that just gets in our way and serves no purpose.

Robin | Yep. I agree. So you, you did a big survey or questionnaire, right? Where you conducted a survey where you asked people what they were lacking. And you got like, 1000's of responses. You were reading all the comments, right? And people are saying things like, financial stability. My love life is a disaster. And you're like, Okay, this is, you know, and so many people felt a lack in a certain part of their lives. And I imagine anybody can identify, Okay, well, what am lack? Where's my lack in my life, right? And then this was interesting Case where you went on to their profiles, and you were able to see, okay, it's funny, you said financial stability, stability, something you feel like you're lacking, but you're showing on social media, you know, you're driving this nice car, and you're on this nice vacation. Oh, there's your house. Wow. Okay. This does not appear to be financial instability. And then the that woman who said, like, my love, life is just in the dumps. She's got, you know, pictures of her with men or people and lots of friends. And she just looks like she's having a really, that doesn't appear on social media to be the case. 

Case | Right

Robin | So this, I think this points a lot to, there's two, there's two underlying themes I thought, or messages or reminders I got from what you're writing about in this part is around comparison, and how, you know, it's the thief of joy, you say, which I fully agree, when we're continuously comparing ourselves to other people. It's like, No. And the other reminder to me is like, we all have shit. We all have problems in life in some area of our life. And life is hard. Like it really life can be very hard. Not all the time and not in all areas of our lives. But we all have challenges. So that picture perfect Instagram profile. It's it's not true.

Case | Yeah, yeah 

Robin | But we are surrounded by it and inundated by it by thinking that everybody else has a better life than us or we're not doing enough or we're not we're not doing I don't right.

Case | Yeah, that and that is why like, you think about comparison, definitely the thief of joy. But it's also just like misplaced. It's just like, it's one thing if you can compare yourself to something that you know, the full story of you have 100% transparency into it. Okay, maybe there's some grounds there to compare, but for the most part, you dont  have access to that. So any comparison you're making is inherently unfair to you, because you don't know anything about the other side, like that exercise showcase that nicely. Not that those people are liars or bad people. It's just there's always a discrepancy between what you show, which yeah, why would you show something bad, and the reality. So, you know, again, I think the topic we're touching on here is that there's always sides to what you can believe. And there's one that's inherently going to pull you down. And there's one that offers a little bit more humanity and optimism to your to your belief system. And it just requires taking a step back and challenging assumptions. I think assumptions are just the worst thing ever. And, you know, now that I wrote that book, a year and a half ago, I would probably add to it, you know, the idea of comparison, the idea of envy, the idea of jealousy. I don't think this is an original thought to me. But you know, if you're going to envy someone else's, what they have, or at least what they present they have, you have to also be envious of how they got there. Right. So if you look at someone and they are rich and successful, you also have to be envious of how they got there, which is a lot of hard work, probably a lot of failure, probably a lot of flop. If you're going to be envious of someone in a happy relationship, well, it's fairly unlikely that they struck gold the first time, you probably had to be envious of the heartbreak that gave them standards and perspectives so that they can find their partner. And we very much skip that step. 

Robin | Right

Case | So I think if there's levels of accountability that you can hold yourself to the first is, I am not blindly comparing myself to anyone, because I do not know the full story. And because of that, it is unfair to me. And the second would be, if I choose to move forward and compare myself to these people, I also have to compare myself to the less glamorous parts of their story, the path that got them to the point that I am envious of. And I think a lot of that makes you like, Okay, well, maybe, maybe, maybe I'm, I'm good. Or maybe you could find some commonality. And you're like, well, yeah, now that I know that, you know, their CEO of this company, and I know that they got fired three times, and they had a startup fail. And I could find some commonality with their story in mine, I'm, you know, I'm kind of on my grind right now. And you you kind of find the commonality there. And it gives you a sense of empathy, and you don't feel alone. So I think there's so much goodness that you could find in these decisions. It's all about the decision that you make, it's all about where your focus goes.

Robin | So the title of your book, is That's Bold off You. So tell us what does bold mean to you? What does it mean to be bold?

Case | I mean, I think in general, it's, it's challenging assumptions. I mean, the book, you know, at its core, I would say is about identities, right. Challenging who you've been told to be, who you've been told you are, and who you've conditioned yourself to think you are likely the negative versions, right. I think it's a bold thing to challenge that, because it's so easy to have someone tell you that you're too loud or too quiet, or an ex to tell you that you're difficult to love or a boss tell you that you're too ambitious, or whatever, and to internalize those things, and then to our conversation, to go out and find evidence of it and never go back from there. So I think it's a very bold thing to challenge that and say, maybe I am too loud, but that's who I am. And here's the goodness that comes from it. Or maybe I'm not. And that's just a completely wrong statement. And I'm not going to believe it and live my life by what someone else said and I almost believed, I think it's a bold thing to do that. And I think it's a bold thing to challenge assumptions in any area of life, what you've been told what you believe what your parents expect of you what society tells you. I think that will never not be a bold thing, because it's easy to accept those things. And anything that's not easy, I would say requires a modicum of boldness, and identities are all about boldness about updating your belief systems, reinventing yourself. And that's not easy, because it will always require you to leave some element of comfort and perhaps people and relationships. And that's a bold thing.

Robin | Yeah. So before we before we end, I wanted to talk about something you share in the book about this is called Misogi mindset. 

Case | Yes. Right.

Robin | So this is all about like, taking action today, like act today, if it scares you do it. Right. Like, just because because whatever. Like what we fear on the other side of that fear is likely something that's really good for us like staying in the comfort zone we can only do that for so long. We need to challenge ourselves, right? So what tell us about the Misogi mindset?

Case | Yeah. So basically, that's something it's a Japanese term, but it's kind of been co opted in a good way by you know, fitness culture and kind of gym bro, endurance athlete culture where, you know, people,

Robin | Oh really I've never heard of it before this so, 

Case | Yeah, yeah, it's like, 

Robin | Okay

Case | People, like, marathon runners, or endurance athletes, though, give themselves like a big Misogi challenge for the year where they're like, every year, some cadence, they'll do something super, super difficult. And they'll train for it for a while, like doing three marathons in a day or, you know, do crazy stuff, just like really hardo type stuff. And it's cool. Like, it's cool to be inspired by these people. Not really my cup of tea, but I remember reading about that. I was like, well, that's cool, man. Like, like said something super difficult, where your chances of failing are really, really high. But you know, the challenge of doing that would be really rewarding. I was like, that's pretty cool. But the thing that didn't really resonate with me was the fact that you do it, like once a year or something. And yeah, you know, I wasn't going to be like, oh, you should do it every day. But I was like, Well, what if you just apply just everyday life with a Misogi mindset that says, if it's difficult, you got to do it. And just see difficult as, as the attraction, not not something to run from. And I know that, you know, that's cheesy to be like do difficult things in life, but like, my guiding light truly is do difficult things, like you got to do difficult things, if it's a difficult thing you've got to do it like that is the that is the sign that you have to do it, that it is difficult. You know, for every reason that any motivational speaker will tell you that only good things come from difficult things. It's how you prove what you're capable of, so on and so forth. But, you know, especially in light of identities, and having difficult conversations and speaking up and asking for clarity and relationships, it will always require that so why not make that your Misogi as often as you can in your life? And just have it be a perpetual mindset instead of something you do periodically. So for me, it was really that I mean, you could draw any parallels you want to like, who has like Mel Robbins has her like 5,10 second rule, or whatever it is, like, if it's difficult, and it's on your radar, you do you act on it as fast as you can. You don't let it sit, you don't push it off from now, you just do it, you try to take a step forward. And you know, from there, your willingness to do those things only gets stronger. Your aversion to it gets weaker. And you start to see back to the beginning, the kind of person you are you do the difficult things. I'm the kind of person who does the difficult things. If you want to prescribe a default mentality to being happy, successful, confident, I would say it's that I'm the kind of person who does difficult things. And those things will not magically but they will align eventually I'm convinced of that.  

Robin | Oh, I really like that i If there was ever a hard conversation, or if something had to get done by my family, and like my brother, for instance, he knows that just Robin will do it. Like she pushed her in the front, and she will do it. That's because I'm the same way. But I do want to read this paragraph because I think it kind of it describes what you're talking about for everybody that's listening. Keep this word, which is Misogi, and it's re defining power in your back pocket. The next time you're tempted to talk to you talk yourself out of something, because it challenges you deeply, or it opens you up to failure, disappointment or rejection before you retreat and start listing all the reasons why not to do it. Say Misogi. I really liked that.

Case | Say it out loud. Be a weirdo

Robin | Yes, be weird be bold Well, I really appreciate your time and all the great work you're doing this world Case, because really, you are you say an eternal optimist. I'm the same way. But you also give people like really like powerful action steps to be bold and to take those daily steps. Take the risks, I think are necessary to to grow in life. So well. 

Case | Thank you.

Robin | I appreciate that and I appreciate you.

Case | I appreciate that. Yeah, great conversation. Yeah, I mean, that. That's what I'm all about. And you know, mindfulness on its own is incredibly powerful. But turning it into practical is where you really see the magic of it. So that's what I tried to do. So thank you.   

Robin | Yeah we have to have tools to do it. Right. Yes. So I always close every podcast with a blessing. And it's really with your words. So this blessing is also co written by Case Kenny. May we remember there is beauty in vulnerability. Vulnerability is a superpower. May we remember that a happy life is not always about more or better. It can be about being different or simpler. And may we be bold enough to embrace the fact that we are exactly who we're supposed to be and that is never too much. Right.

Case | I believe it. I do.

Robin | I do too. Thank you Case.

Case | Of course. Thanks for having me.