Sophie Grégoire Trudeau - Closer Together

Join Robin for an insightful conversation with Sophie Grègoire Trudeau about love, relationships, mental health and her new book, Closer Together. Sophie shares personal stories from her life and career that have shaped her perspectives. Together, Robin and Sophie discuss the importance of connection, emotional literacy, vulnerability, play, and rest for our well-being. Sophie also offers valuable tools on managing stress, understanding our emotional needs, and fostering supportive communities. This thoughtful episode provides listeners with practical tools and practices to enhance their well-being and navigate life's challenges with authenticity and self-awareness.

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Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai. 

Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready

Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information, and friendly advice, to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme. Now, Let's Talk Love. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of Let's Talk Love. And today we're gonna talk a lot about love. And many other things with our beautiful guest, Sophie Gregoire Trudeau. Thank you for joining us, Sophie.

Sophie Grégoire Trudeau | Anyway, thank you, Robin, when we met, it was like instant chemistry. And we, I feel like this whole community we speak a kind of like a similar language from within, and it feels like home. So thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Robin Ducharme | I'm so grateful that you said that, Sophie, because first, when I read your book Closer Together, I felt close to you. And I think that's when people read your book, they're gonna get a sense of the loving, kind, authentic, vulnerable person you are because you share your heart and you do that in everything you do. But and then I met you in person, and I'm like, oh, yeah, she's the real deal. This is good. This is good.

Sophie Grégoire Trudeau | There's no BS that I can assure you of. 

Robin | Yes. Yeah. Well, I get that sense from you. And you're just this is just awesome. You know, the other thing I did want to say, which I didn't have a chance to acknowledge during our fireside chat at the Summit, is that when people read their book, they're going to learn about you, right, you share about your life story. But I what I really appreciated was that I think as readers you gain a bit people will gain a better understanding of themselves. 

Sophie | Yes, yes. You know, because I have a very unique life path, because I have, you know, just how I was raised, and then meeting Justin, who became Prime Minister of Canada, and the core political path and everything that I've been exposed to, in my life, from childhood to adulthood, and having three kids and two teenagers and all that, it's just so unique, that I feel like I know the cost of what it means to have a public profile to your life. So I've interviewed, you know, people who think of themselves as celebrities, or who are thought of as celebrities, the world of celebrity, and fame is a dangerous one, and I truly don't believe in it. I think that concept is an illusion, and that we are distorting people's lives, and emotional, we're in a world when we believe that, oh, that person is so famous, and she must be so different. And you know, leading such a perfect life and all that all of that is crap. It is not true. So I'm going to take that as a compliment in the sense that I don't want to put this book out to be known to the world. I know what that feels like. I want people to be known to themselves. This is why I wrote the book. That's why we're doing this. And I know that you were doing it to through your own channel.

Robin | That's right. So so that I just let's just talk about that  Sophie, because this book must have taken you, like so much time to build and because what tell us about the book, because I mean, it's coming out on the 20, is it 23rd or 24th, days from now? 

Sophie | 23rd

Robin | So yeah. So I love your I love it so much. And so I'm so happy about it.

Sophie | So I daydream, the cover, to be like one big hug around the book. 

Robin | Oh, I love that. 

Sophie | That's what it is it you see it better when you take the jacket off, like the hug goes all around the book. But what's most important is really because I daydreamed this because I wanted it to be so inclusive, and I wanted people to understand that we can never compare our suffering. It's not because you have all the accumulation of wealth or the objects or a big house that you feel emotionally safe. And safety, when it comes to our lives is primordial. It is one of our most, if not most important need, and it's game over when you don't have it but you have other things going on. So this this conversation about love and a feeling of safety is everything. And I'm going to try to bring it back to that as much as possible. So people who are listening are really understanding how all of our paths are parallel and that the work that we're doing, whatever industry you're in, or even if you're a mom at home, like whatever it is, we're all intertwined through how we lead ourselves emotionally.

Robin | So why don't we talk about that, like, so much of the book is about connection, and how as a society we have and we talked about this a lot at the summit, we all need connection, how it is a human need, of course it is but we are are in a disconnected world.

Sophie | So yeah, go on.

Robin | I was just going to ask you how, like, what are your thoughts around that? And in the book, you talk about how do we get back to connection in very practical ways?

Sophie | I love the fact that you say practical, but yet, because yes, there are practical ways to come back into your, your own safe home within yourself. You know, being connected to ourselves means that we can sit with our pain without feeling overwhelmed, which is difficult in the lives that we lead, because we live so rapidly and incessantly. And we really what I realized, you know, not only through writing this book, and, and interviewing so many incredible experts in their own area that you know, of, of knowledge, is that connection is a lack of good and healthy connection is at the core of so much of our trauma, and so much of our wounds. But ironically, human connection is the solution to our trauma. So there's a beautiful irony there. Sometimes it's I feel like life is kind of like, watching us from above and, and having a little smirk on, you know, to see where, where we are going to lead ourselves. But the lessons are in us, the lessons are all around us constantly. But because we live in a world where we are always taught to self betray, we can't look the way we look naturally, we can age, the way we age, naturally, we can act our own creative, authentic self, because we were scared that we're going to be judged. Living like that means that we're not creating and thriving, We're surviving. And trying to fit in is the opposite of authenticity. And and when you we know that all the experts are telling us that the two basic needs that we have when we come as human beings into this body onto this planet, the first one is attachment, being taken care of, and being under the gaze, touching care of another human being for our survival, all babies need it. And we still need it when we grow up. And then the second one is authenticity, how to express our true selves, creative selves and our own unique personality, without changing our behaviors to please other people, we do it as children with our parents, we do it with our friends, we do it with groups around us, we do it on social media to fit in or to be loved. It is a it has reached a point that where there's so much suffering inside. And we have such a distorted concept of self of who we are, that it's so difficult to navigate and to constantly be stuck in a stress mode and an alert mode. Never  feeling safe, you know, within ourselves. So we're really, we're in a situation that demands that we really wake up. 

Robin | Yes. Dr. Gabor Mate, you are good friends with and you interviewed him for your book. And he helped you inspired you to write your book, I believe, was in the jacket of the book. And this weekend, he talked about that concept exactly around the fact that we struggled between the authenticity and our connection. And what he what I was one of my profound lessons this weekend was when he said that if you are trading your authenticity, for connection, it's going to be so detrimental to your health. And that's what a lot of us like, like he said are doing. So how do we come back to a place and in the book, you're interviewing all these amazing, beautiful experts in these fields of connection and mental health, and how do we get to back to our authenticity, what makes us happy? And our purpose, you talk there's there was a big section in the book about our purpose. And how do we identify that right? And like, yeah,

Sophie | So this is a big, big loaded question, because

Robin | I know it is I'm sorry, Sophie. 

Sophie | No, I love it. No, Robin, no, no, you're you're right on it. You're right on it. There's a reason why you're good at what you do love. Take it in, it's a compliment. We forget that we are worthy of rest. Okay. 

Robin | Yes.

Sophie | When animals stop playing, they become sick. When humans stop playing, we also become sick in some ways. When we are sick, we stop playing right physically, like it's difficult to play when we don't feel well. So the first thing we have to look at is how are we feeling in our own bodies in our own lives? What is our stress level? What are our anxiety levels? And that means that from a neurobiological perspective, I'm going to keep it very simple because it is simple. All human beings have a nervous system. All nervous systems on an autonomic nervous system have two branches. Your sympathetic fight flight freeze keeps you away from danger tells you that there's a car passing by your you're not going to cross so that it doesn't hit you. And then you have your parasympathetic which is the rest and digest. When these two work well together this kind of kind of like a natural dance. It's great, right. Our bodies are miraculous little machines. But when we're stuck in the sympathetic mode in fight flight freeze, your amygdala, which is kind of like an almond shaped structure in your brain is like a bell ringing, saying there is a saber toothed tiger, he's going to attack your tribe. And I'm metaphoring here from, you know, the ancient cavemen. But that's how we feel whether there's an ambulance siren, you know, going on and on, on the street beside us, whether you are trying to reach a deadline at work, whether you're trying to navigate a difficult relationship, whether you're trying to raise your kids, and guess what, whether you're trying to do it all, if you're a woman, and holding it all together, our stress levels are up the roof, enough, enough of thinking and being told that we're not worthy of rest. That's step number one, how do you incorporate enough rest in your life, whether it's 10 minutes of meditation a day, whether it's a 30 minute walk, whether it's anything that actually tells your mind, you're safe. So by the way, playfulness tells your mind that you're safe. Okay, the mind when you're playing, when you're playing without structure, you're you might be tickling your little one, you might be playing hide and seek you're going to the park, you know, it doesn't have to be scrabble or monopoly, when you're just being playful, the brain brain says I'm safe, nobody's going to hurt me. I can be who I am in this moment. So our stress levels are related to our disconnection our dysfunctional relationship with the present moment. That is what stress is, therefore, because we're constantly projecting, planning, coordinating, trying to hold it all together, holding the emotional load of the family at the same time, especially as women. And I'm not saying that men are not doing it. They're incredible allies, but from the patriarchy and the cultural system that we work in and being raised in. It's more difficult, and, you know, parental leave, and getting men to share the household tasks is extremely important in this process of getting more rest. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, have you looked at your childhood trauma, and I don't want to scare anybody, you know, when I'm using the word trauma, there's big T's, there's little T's, traumas, not only what was bad that happened to you, or not happened to you, but it's what's good that maybe didn't take place. Okay? We all have emotional longings. We all have, we all need love, attention and touch. And by the way, while I was writing the book, I learned that sexual touch is isn't our sexual relationship isn't necessary to our thriving as human beings, but human touch, simple human safe, you know, validating touch, and present touch is extremely important, in telling the brain it's going to be okay. And by the way, I suffered from eating disorders when I was young, and when people stop me somewhere, whether I'm the supermarket or meeting a new friend, and they're like, hey, they put a hand right here and they say, hon, are you okay? Or it's all going to be okay, because I tell that to people all the time. But I need for

Robin | You need to we all need it. Yes

Sophie | Exactly. Exactly. So to cut to really condense the, the big answer to your to your big question. It starts with rest. acknowledging what you've been through in your life and what your true emotional longings are. If you close your eyes, you go back to your seven year old self, what do you see? Is she free? Is she bound? Is he free? Is he bound? What about them? And what does your heart truly wish in that moment? If you could tell that child or give that child anything that she he or they longs for, what would it be? Because that child is still active in your soul today and in your body and in your mind? And we carry all that we had in our bond of attachment into our adult relationships. So it is very important that we examine how we rest how we think we're worthy of rest. And have we faced our inner truths of our own emotional longings? And are we surrounding ourselves with nourishment, people food, sleep, what we bring our attention to every neuron that we fire, they come together, so what we where we bring our attention to energy flows. So the way we consume the way we live our lives. Mental health is not just the absence of mental illness, it is the fabric of our lives, everything we dedicate our bodies, mind and hearts to. So and then that's what we have to examine. So I would say it's an it's a big, three big parts rest, knowing how to rest how to be worthy of it, to be able to look at our trauma and to keep playfulness, and movement and a healthy network of friends around us is absolutely paramount into building our own emotional leadership.

Robin | I love that. You share a lot in your in your book interviews and you know, you're just, you're just an open book in many ways, Sophie, which I so appreciate. You talk about how you know, play and nature, and you know, you, you are a yoga instructor, you do yoga nidra, it's part of your day and your practice. And you talk about how your kids are doing that with you. And I just not personal 

Sophie | Sometimes. 

Robin | But you do share how I mean, that is, it's always been such an important integral part of your family is play, and nature and connection. Right. So going back, I think the creation of joy and building joy, that's a method , one of your experts, and I don't I'm sorry, her name escapes me right now you'll know. But she talks about how happiness is a choice and how our options will like you don't wake up happy, right? Oh, somebody talked about that this weekend, too, right? Like to choose happiness? 

Sophie | Yes. So it's Laurie Santos, 

Robin | Yes Santos

Sophie | He has the happiness lab. And he talks about the fact that we're scanning in our own way. But it's not all our fault. Because from a biological perspective, the brain is not wired in our hard disk, you know, to to make us happy when we come back from work and we're depleted and we're trying to make dinner for the kids. And there's three different activities at night, and how the heck are we going to drive all of them at the same time, I'm just taking one example here, but it happens in so many lives. The brain just wants to be like, okay, I want to go sit on the couch, have a glass of wine and watch TV, and have junk food because it's 

Robin | And decompress. 

Sophie | Right? So it's all the easy answers to what is not going to truly make us feel well. I don't I'm not obsessed with the word happiness, because I think we're, we're focusing too much on the word happy, happy. Like, we weren't, we weren't put on earth to be happy, happy all the time, we were put here to become conscious, to be able to look at our own behavior, adapt, realize and change in order to evolve. So happy is great. It's part of life, but so sad. So as angry, so frustrated, so is, you know, depressed in some ways, but now we've reached a level that is no longer helping us evolve into our best selves. So Laurie Santos says, you know, get out of your own way. And then later in the book, I talk with Katherine Price, about creativity and, and also I talk about physical movement, and how when we move our bodies and human beings have to move their bodies, we are not meant to sit at a desk and do nothing for the whole day. Because when you do that, there is a nervous fatigue that sets in, and then it affects your sleep cycle. And then you're not sleeping well. And then if you're not sleeping, while you don't want to exercise because you're depleted. So then when you don't exercise, you know, your level of satiation changes, and you crave more junk food and sugars and stuff like that. And so that feeds into your sleep cycle as well. And it's this whole wheel that becomes kind of like a vicious cycle that doesn't want our our well being. So our micro habits every day can kind of like interject goodness into our mental well being wheel, and we cannot dissociate them. That's what we don't understand yet. But you know, even science and medicine now is looking at the human body from a more holistic point of view. Again, Dr. Gabor Mate says that even in the peer pericardium, there is a set of nerves that have a negative predictability capacity. So when somebody says, oh, I should have followed my heart, I knew it wasn't good for me. There's actually, you know, nerves in the heart that have a predictive capability and our intuition. Our intuition is our highest form of intelligence. And when we play, we tune into that as well. When we create we said, we set ourselves free. Samaya former painting teacher said that art begins when just judgment suspends. So this is true when you're painting, but think about it, apply it to your daily life. Art begins when judgment suspends between people towards yourself, it means that we can't be creative when we're constantly trying to fight against who we truly are. But we live in a society that's constantly, you know, rewarding us for self betrayal, then we don't even know we're doing it because we're completely brainwashed. 

Robin | Oh my goodness

Sophie | But we're waking up, and I 

Robin | We are 

Sophie | Think enough is enough, is enough. You know, democracy as we know it is in danger. The truth is being distorted, free press is in danger. You know, the abyss between the rich and the poor is getting worse and worse, we need not only to take responsibility for our society, but not everybody is in a push a position of power to change the rules. But if we take emotional leadership over ourselves, we will make more discerning choices, whether it's when we go to the booth to vote, whether it's in our own family households, whether it's in our classrooms, or or in our workplace, better emotional leadership means more well regulated democracies and systems and societies and workplaces and schools. So this is not just woowoo New Age know how to read, okay, at all. It's resetting our nervous system, so we feel safe enough to continue with our lives and create and become who we are. So I'm so much I'm so passionate about this, that when I wrote the book, I couldn't stop. I had like four books I could have written and like, in a year, and I had to edit and edit and edit to make sure that people have access to this easy science, that's part of the your, your own body, your own mind. And we teach kids how to, you know, pinpoint a country on a map how to read. But do we teach them how to regulate their emotions and their nervous system? Is it about time, it's about time.

Robin | It is about time, Sophia and I did. We did say this on Saturday, but your book is a resource, it is in itself, just so full of the information that we all need to live such like full life and actually make the world a better place. I mean, really, this is this is like, I really I don't I'm not speaking this ultimate. I am altruistic. But I mean, really, though, it's very important work. 

Sophie | You know, by the way, when you say that, like I'm always like, I'm very proud of the book that I put together and proud of the experts. But when you say that, like, wow, really, like, great like this, this is my only goal. And if people are getting it, then yes, let's write more. 

Robin | Yes I get it,  I get it. So tell us about what it means. You use the word, universal emotional library, emotional library, having an emotional library. I really love this. I that was a big learning for me on this in this book. Tell us about that. In any case, I've got more questions around it, but that's good.

Sophie | So you know, a couple of I think about a year and a half ago, I went to visit the college that I studied at called Jeab-de-Brebeuf in Montreal. And I met with a big group of young women who were very involved in like, you know, student life and all that. And I asked them know, who has had trauma in their lives? You don't have to tell me what it was. Just raise your hand if you had everybody, maybe  98%? Where's that? So I'm like, okay, are you all friends? No, there's different groups of people. Are we all one trauma away from each other? Yes, it takes one big trauma to change your brain in your mind, or a series of chronic little traumas, you don't even realize it, and you're constantly in alert mode, and you've constantly stressed and anxious. So it's really important that we realize that we should not judge each other's suffering, because you can have it all in your life and it can look like that to the eye of somebody who doesn't know you. But you must, you could be struggling inside and nobody notices. And that's not okay. And you should never be alone on that path. But repeat the question because I got I got I strayed away from it.

Robin | Just what it means to have an how do you like what is an emotional library? 

Sophie | Yes. 

Robin | And how do you build one? 

Sophie | That's it. So when we had that discussion, I, you know, the teachers and I spoke after, and they're like, What do you mean by like, emotional library? I said, well, first of all, when you actually go to your library, whether it's school or municipal, or you know, in your own in your own writing, or whatever, do you have access to books that can teach you how to reset your nervous system, understand your emotions better is starting, right? It's in the past 5-10 years, it's slowly starting to change. But that emotional universal library that is common to all of us, because you can live you know, in South Asia, you can live in Montreal, you can live in the States, human emotions, we are bound by human emotions from cradle to grave. So we can tell each other off we're so different and we're so unique. Yeah, okay, that's gonna last about five minutes because when you go deeper, you'll realize that every child that comes onto this earth has the same needs like everybody else. And as adults, we continue to share this universal common denominator of being well attached and being able to express your our authenticity. So if we could have not only this emotional library available in our tangible books, podcasts, circles, and communities, but know how to visit it inside of us. With more knowledge, and more capacity of discernment and perspective, so we can actually say, okay, wait a second, I'm feeling I'm in darkness today, I'm feeling depleted, I feel I'm not being understood, hey, you normal, it's okay. What you're feeling is completely legitimate, you're allowed to feel that way, there is no shame or guilt to be felt at all. Now, how long has been this been lasting for? How is it affecting your life? And how are you navigating yourself through it all? Do you need help? There's always allies along the way. So for me, the emotional universal library is about every life situation connected to the universal fact that we're all sensing and feeling beings. Does that make sense? 

Robin | It absolutly does. And the extra I, you know, when I, you, you share the story of that same experience when you're in that school, you're old school. And you asked the girls if they were open to sharing, like, what was the hardest thing you've ever gone through? Right. And I think just the fact that this is what Dr. Jody Carrington was reinforcing at the Summit as well is around the fact that you if you're able to name it, you contain it. Right. And she says, It's not the emotions is what you're just saying. It's not our emotions that are going to kill us. It's not sharing them not being not being acknowledged for those emotions that could.

Sophie | Michael J. Fox said, and he's gone through a lot in his life. I don't know if you've watched the documentary, but he was interested. 

Robin | Yes.

Sophie | Yeah. He says we're only as sick as our secrets. 

Robin | Oh my gosh,

Sophie | I was talking about that with my mom today. She's like, well I didn't know I think there's some truths that shouldn't be told.

Robin | Yeah, right. That's, that's a common thought, I think.

Sophie | But I tend to agree with with what Michael J. Fox said, because, yes, it's true. We all have our little private inner gardens, and we tend to them and, and it's and that's okay. But living with deep secrets that we don't feel safe to share will only make us sicker. So, on this path for more well being, it is not only a way of caring for ourselves, to look at our pain and and share it, but also a responsibility. And that's what I've realized through the years is that we have a responsibility as human beings to become an individual. It is a deep responsibility. And there's a quote about that by Eleanor, Eleanor Roosevelt in the book, which she was an incredible, you know, strong personality, but it's our responsibility. Then again, we can't carry shame and guilt, okay, these emotions that have been taught by, you know, some religions, some parents, some people who were traumatized themselves, broke people, hurt people, people, we need to break that cycle. And that's what we're doing. And I have chills, because I come from a family where there is addiction on both sides. And it hurt me a lot, as a young kid. And I, it still hurts me because I still see it. And I still try to save, you know, the little girl needs like, hey, maybe I can still try. And all we can do is to have the moment in our lives where we say, enough, I don't have to carry that trauma anymore. And the only way to do that is to face it, sit with it, have pain with it, and know that we're not going to die from it. And I say this, not lightly, because some people can't even bear the weight and they take their lifes away. Because the pain is too is is too heavy to carry. So emotional leadership is no, you know, is a big responsibility. And it has lightness to it as well. Because let's go come back to playfulness. It doesn't have to be depressing and dark and heavy all the time. It doesn't. And playfulness with will lift us up in our in our own souls and minds. And we need it. So we need to be in connection. And the pandemic showed us and it made me angry because I've been saying this for 20 years. And I'm like, hey, people, we needed a pandemic to wake up and see that we were all interconnected and that we need each other to thrive.

Robin | Right, and the whole world was affected. And that's right. 

Sophie | Because it's universal. 

Robin | Of course, of course it is. And I something that you just I think illuminated, was even just with the weekend at In Bloom was when you come together, how important it is for community and for us to be together like in a real sense, right? Not on our phones not checking on Instagram to strangers that you're like wanting likes from because who gives a shit about that? Pardon me, but really, it's about the people that are in front of them. So the people beside us and sharing joy like dancing together or just going for a walk, whatever it is, I just think we need to really make a lot more effort to really connect with each other. There's so much healing in that and joy.

Sophie | I so agree with you. And you and I danced on stage just for about five seconds. But all I saw people smiling, right? 

Robin | Right.

Sophie | And playfulness is also humor. And I'm a pranker. And I love goodness, that's also so important to have in our lives and in our own families and, and to self deprecate and take life seriously without taking ourselves too seriously. Right? 

Robin | Yup. So you also say something about belonging to oneself. And I think you have talked about that in this conversation around, it is so much about understanding and taking responsibility, looking inwards, so that you can make the changes and that will ripple out into the people, the people in the world around you. So belonging to oneself, you say belonging to oneself, means and it's an act of courage and rebellion. Courage, and I was like, Whoa, when I read that, I was like, yes, it does take courage, and it does take risk, like you're stepping, like, into a part of your life. Hmm. Right. Let's, let's talk about that. Very close.

Sophie | I love that. And by the way, one of my favorite quotes is by Clarissa Pinkola. Estes, who wrote the book, Women who Dance with Wolves. And I have chills thinking about what this woman writes. And she says, if you haven't been called a defiant, incorrigible woman yet, do not worry there's still time. 

Robin | Yeah. 

Sophie | So the good mystery, the rebellious act of creating life, looking at ourselves naked, on all sides of the mirror of life, physically and mentally, giving birth, whether biologically or not, but just giving ourselves birth to the world, right? From a creative standpoint, from a biological standpoint, yes, that does create a ripple effect, because we're all nervous systems, okay. And we, when we come eye to eye, for example, when the baby is born, and the mother or the father or the caregiver holds the baby, the way that she holds the baby and how much there is eye gazing, how much there is touched, how much there is validation and softness and tenderness, of that baby's perception of the world and its own reality, how much the needs are taken care of, the stability, the continuity, and this is not true for everybody. It's how it shouldn't happen. An unstressed mother, carrying a baby, baby already feels the stresses in the belly. Already, the hormones and the cortisol and the adrenaline and then, right, it's all in there. So the way we treat mothers in our society, the way we treat people who take care of young and old, the way we come eye to eye, as adults, we have that same need as we did when we were younger, to be to regulate ourselves. So when you talk about that real ripple effect, Robin, we're all little nervous systems who are affecting one another, whether you're at the supermarket with strangers, or whether you're in a bed with your lover, and everything in between, it happens, it is real this is not new age woowoo unaccessible, there are chemicals being released, and your brain is producing them and our bodies are responding to this dance. So the more intimate and I'm putting away the sexual component of intimacy, the more intimate we become with ourselves and others, the more chances we give ourselves to not be threatened by others difference. Now look at the state of the world right now. If we feel secure in our own minds and bodies, we are not threatened by the difference of others. The future of this humanity is counting on the fact that we are unafraid of others differences. Not only that, that we accept them and celebrate them, Chill's back on again,

Robin | Oh my gosh, yeah.

Sophie | Because we only get to be in this once. Maybe you have other beliefs and there's return incarnation and I respect that as well. As long as you come back as a better person and that you you you complete your your karmic wheel. But really, we just want to love and be loved. We just want to be able to express who we are, and contribute to the world. But too many people are just trying to survive and trying to reach make ends meet. So for for some of us are more privileged emotionally and financially. And yes, it is our responsibility to step up. I absolutely believe that. So let's be careful when we elect leaders or organizations of companies of schools of governments, make sure they're not there for the power but that they're there to create more social justice. It is paramount and don't let people out there or systems out there or social media. trigger your fear and you're alert mode, so they can say, haha, I'll take care of you. Huh Because we all want that. So be discerning and have the self respect to attract and give your attention to people who are worthy of your presence and attention. Because that's where everything shifts. And present is love. The only way you can show up for yourself and for other people is through being loving and compassionate and empathetic. But when we turn off this podcast, when tonight you go to bed, or in the next moment, you feel that you're you're alone by yourself. How are you treating yourself? 

Robin | How are you talking to yourself?

Sophie | That's it. That's it. That's where it all lies. 

Robin | Yeah wow.

Sophie | And you can think of the biggest celebrity or the biggest world leader or the biggest music star, I don't care. How do they treat themselves and others? That is human goodness. Bottom line.

Robin | Yes. It is love. Oh, my gosh, Sophie, we talked a lot about love.

Sophie | Love on all forms, because I think we're so brainwashed with the concept of love. It has to look like this. It has to feel like that. No, it doesn't. 

Robin | Yeah. Love is all encompassing.

Sophie | Yes, yeah. It is loved.

Robin | I have loved this conversation, Sophie and I, I know that people listening and who read your book Closer Together are going to get so much of you through your book, but also so many tools. Because I really think that's what we need. We need to learn. And we need to use these tools, not just right, because we're consuming really good at consuming information. But what are you to do with it? Right? Yeah

Sophie | We can overwhelm ourselves with things and information. But what we're really thirsty for is love, love, freedom and wisdom. So it's our choice. But we got to make that choice. And we got to feel safe enough to make that choice.

Robin | Love, freedom and wisdom. That's beautiful. Well, thank you, Sophie for such a beautiful conversation and for giving your time and your wisdom to our community, and for sharing everything with the world. I just love your book. And I just hope everybody reads it. So thank you, dear soul.

Sophie | It's still messy in some parts and I'm still learning and I'm learning from other humans. So thank you for shining the light on all this.

Robin | Blessings to you. 

Sophie | Blessings much

Robin | Thank you so much for listening. Visit realloveready.com to continue learning with us. Please rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the tools and guidance you need to form more loving relationships and create positive change in your life. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage you to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude to those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well. Many blessings and much love.