Sarah Sapora - Your Ultimate You

In this inspiring episode of Let’s Talk Love, Robin sits down with author and speaker Sarah Sapora. Together, they talk about her excellent new book, ‘'Soul Archaeology' that guides readers through the process of self discovery - uncovering their true selves amidst the layers of life's experiences. They explore the detrimental influence of diet culture on self-esteem and the importance of untangling from its grip to embrace our true self-worth. Sarah emphasizes the significance of prioritizing the journey of self-reflection over specific goals or outcomes, highlighting the transformative power of honesty, accountability, and self-awareness. Through personal anecdotes and shared wisdom, Robin and Sarah shed light on the manifestations of self-abandonment and the necessity of rewriting our internal narratives towards self-love. Filled with humor, heart and hard-won wisdom, this conversation serves as a beacon for those embarking on the ongoing journey of personal growth and self-discovery.

Join us in Vancouver (or virtually) at In Bloom this April 12-14, 2024!

https://realloveready.com/in-bloom-a-love-and-relationships-summit-2024

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Learn more with Sarah Sapora:

Soul Archaeology: https://www.sarahsapora.com/book

Stop screwing yourself over! Get Sarah’s Self-Abandonment Checklist and a free eBook on self-abandonment, what it is, how to stop, and what to do instead! https://developed-narrative-inc.ck.page/794727984c

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Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready

Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Hello, and welcome to Let's Talk Love. Today I had such a fun conversation with my new friend. The beautiful, talented, super wise Sarah Sapora. Sarah is a writer and inspirational speaker and the organizer of body inclusive personal growth events and self love retreats around the world. Online her tight knit community includes hundreds of 1000s of 80's and 90's kids, searching for self love and wellness free of diet culture. Her guiding principles of radical vulnerability, self accountability and tolerance have solidified her reputation as someone who talks about the hard stuff with humor and heart. Today, we talked about her book, she shares so many stories about her life, from her childhood immersed in diet culture, like many of us growing up, she shares her stories with relationships with men, and how she found herself self abandoning. And we talked about self abandonment quite a bit in this episode, what does self abandonment really look like? And how do we identify it because a lot of these ways that we self abandon, we're not even aware that we're doing it. So. I just loved that part of our conversation. I learned a lot from Sarah around that. And she also talks about her path to self love and, and how she felt to her strong self worth. And how do we do that? She's an excellent teacher. I've learned so much about myself through working with Sarah and reading her book. I hope you enjoy this hour and uncover some new insights that you can bring into your own life. Enjoy. 

Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information, and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme. Now, Let's Talk Love. 

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of Let's Talk Love. I am so excited about today because we are joined by Sarah Sapora. Sarah is my new friend. And this beautiful, inspirational, wise wise woman who wrote this book, which we're going to talk about today, Sarah, thank you for being with us.

Sarah Sapora | I feel like a little bit of context is good and needed. So we have this scheduled for last week. And I had a terrible cold. And both of my noses were like concrete. And I'm like, we can do this. I'll rally. But if we can hold off, let's do it. So we did but then we recorded our Instagram and it was like, I don't know, the fate of the tech fates, we're not on our side because we did a great live and I couldn't see your face at all we did the whole thing where you can see me and I could not see you. And so I was listening to your voice like interpretive dance to figure out how to talk. And when I should not. And I had, we did the whole thing and I couldn't see your face. So I'm so excited to actually be able to see your face now. It's such a pleasure to meet.

Robin | Me too sweetie. Me too. So tell us okay, this, I'm gonna hold up your book. It's called SoulArchaeology. And so I think I said this during the live but when we prepare for podcasts, my best friend Kirsten and I, we read the books, we listen to the books, and then we get to talk about what we learned. And you know, the the lessons that we garnered from the authors and, and it's like a gab session and we have such a great time. And oh my gosh, Sarah, did we ever have fun talking about your book and what we learned. And I have to say like, I think we're the same age. I'm 46 How old are you?

Sarah | I'm 45 I'll be 46 in September

Robin | Okay. I was September girl too. 

Sarah Sapora  

Wait, wait, when?

Robin | September 7.

Sarah | I'm the fifth

Robin | You're the fifth

Sarah | And not only that but one of my best friends in the world, my soul peeps is a September 7 as well, too. So there you go.

Robin | Oh my gosh, that's wonderful. Okay, so when so when, you know, when you you talk about so much you share so much about yourself in this book, Sarah, and you are such a vulnerable, beautiful, kind soul and being able to do that. And, and I was like I resonated with so much of what you're saying. I mean, we're in the same age, same generation, like okay, so we're gonna dive into it. I just want to say that I loved your book. And so I think it's called Soul Archaeology. I've Totally Doable Approach to Creating a Self Loving and Liberated Life. So let's start let's start there Sarah what is what like why did you like Soul Archaeology, I just love the name. What does it mean? What does Soul Archaeology actually mean?

Sarah | So we all have shit. 

Robin | Yeah

Sarah | And especially like when you get to our age, you don't make it too our age without acquire layers of shit, right? Stuff that has built up over time, right? Traumas because we can, you know, we can use that word out wherever we want painful things, joyful things, lessons that we've learned that are helpful lessons that we've learned that are not. And all of these things stack up over time. And when we reach a place in life, where we feel pain, when we have this moment, and I'm, like, fuck it, I need something different, is very natural to want to expect to remove ourselves from pain as quickly as possible, and dive headfirst into the deep end and look for the best solution that we can find to quickly make it better as much as humanly possible as fast as we can. 

Robin | Yeah

Sarah | There's something very sexy about that, right. That's why a lot of self help exists. That's why a lot of diet culture exists, right? Because people want to remove themselves from pain. 

Robin | And like you said, the advertisers are like you know, we're surrounded, we're surrounded by this, this idea that we got to get you out of the pain, get you out of the pit. 

Sarah | Yeah

Robin | Don't go in the pain, like you're not supposed to go in the pain to avoid the pain.

Sarah | And listen, it's okay, to want to improve our lives, that's a great thing. But the reality is, is that we can't fix it all at once. And there's no before and after. And there's no fast fix, the best thing that I believe that we can do is like what Maria says in The Sound of Music, let's start at the very beginning. You can only start at the very top layer of what you see at this very moment. And Soul Archeology is the idea of peeling your layers of shit off one at a time in the quest to reveal you. So in the book, I use this example. But I'm going to use it here because it's such a great visual. Iam fat Laura Croft in Tomb Raider, picture me right now. except I have no boobs, sweat, and look great in shorts. And I have like a fedora and a whip. And I am in Bali, or Vietnam or somewhere uncovering a massive artifact. This is my mission. So I get to the dig site I get there. This is where the artifact is supposed to be. So I go, oh, what is going on with this dirt? What does it look like? What do I feel? What do I touch, and then I brush a layer off. And then I go, oh, look, here's another layer of dirt. And this layer of dirt is different. It's a different color. It's a different texture, what do I see? What do I feel, and then I brush it off. And then holy shit at that third layer, I see what looks like the nipple of a statue pumping out of the dirt. And then I go holy shit it's a nipple, I'm gonna dig here. And then I dig around the nipple. And the next thing I know, I've revealed a boob when I look at it, and then I dig more. And then I've got a torso. And then I look and I dig more. And one layer at a time I dig up this beautiful, gorgeous ancient fertility statue. That's what uncovering into your ultimate you is like, we want it to be right away. We want to dive into that dirt and rip that fertility out of the fucking ground as fast as possible. But the truth is, we can really only do it one layer at a time. So if you reach a place in life, where you find yourself in pain, and you don't know where to begin, as most of us don't, because when we're in a place of pain, and people say well just do things that make you happy. You want to be like if I knew I would make me happy, I would have fucking done it. And you know, and I couldn't do I definitely would have done it already. So thank you, but don't thank you for that really not useful advice. The best thing we can do is dig our layers one at a time until we uncover what in us through and authentic and real and who we truly are. We are doing an archaeology of our soul 

Robin | Oh that is so awesome. Sarah, it's beautiful. You know, the other thing you talk about in the book, which I think we are conditioned to do is set goals, like endlessly setting goals. Right? And it's funny, right? Because you, you talk about your partner. I don't know if you're still with this person, 

Sarah | I am 

Robin | But arm candy. 

Sarah | Yup man candy. But arm candy is good. Yeah, I'll use that. Yeah.

Robin | And he's like, Okay, we got to set goals, right? Like, of course, like, of course, I'm gonna get set goals like, how else do you live your life Sarah? And you're like, 

Sarah | Yeah

Robin | No what goals are shit, bullshit. 

Sarah | Yeah.

Robin | And you it's about the process, I want to read something, okay, 

Sarah | Please

Robin | Because this is so great. It's on page 60. You said, "You won't experience change by talking about things you will experience it if you start doing things. Because doing things leads to more doing, doing clears the path. If we focus on the process, and not the outcome, we can let the doing be our guide, you don't need a special key to unlock what comes next. You don't need $29.95 monthly membership, right? Or a fancy outfit or a new app. You need to start doing shit you haven't done before, it is going to take practice, you may swim right away. Or you may feel like you're treading water. But if you keep practicing the strategies I'm about to teach you, things will get easier." And you do you do we're gonna go into these strategies. Right. This is about giving people tools and strategies because that that really is we can read the books, we can sign up for the memberships. But you have to have a plan. You have to have tactics and strategies you talk about that. And this is what you're doing in your your your career. You're helping people with these strategies. First, I want to talk to her about like something that oh my god, I resonated so closely with. And my friend, my friend Kirsten, and I laughed. But it's not funny. It's funny, not funny on how we were raised in this diet culture. 

Sarah | Oprah wagon of fat

Robin | Oprah wagon of fat. 

Sarah | Was your mother on Optifast? Or did you know people who are an optifast back in the day?

Robin | My mother was my mother was on all the diets that you listed every single diet. 

Sarah | Funny not funny, right? Yeah, terrible.

Robin | Oh, no. 

Sarah | There's no way in hell you put metal balls behind your ears like I did. I went in that one. 

Robin | Okay, I don't know why. I don't even know if that is but that no, okay. I didn't I didn't hear about that one. But I went, I went to Weight Watchers, okay, like I was I was that 12 year old girl that went to Weight Watchers with my mom. And I would stand in front of the crowd of people every week, we would go into our weigh ins. And I remember week after week, on how many weeks I would stand in front of that crowd and say, Hello, my name is Robin Ducharme. And this week, I lost no pounds. And then everybody in the crowd. oh, Robin next time, hurrah. It's okay. And I'm like, and I've got my little book with all that, you know, because of course, I'm tracking every single morsel that goes into my mouth.

Sarah | Every single thing in that little pamphlet, right? 

Robin | Yup I'm eating. I'm eating this small piece of toast and I'm putting on the half and a half a teaspoon of peanut butter that I was allowed. And you know what I'm saying this and it makes me sad. Makes me sad. 

Sarah | It should make you sad

Robin | Like my little 12 year old. 

Sarah | Yeah. 

Robin | Right. And I would and I would be watching my mom stand in front of the mirror. And she's like, I'm so fat Robin, look at this fat. Look at my legs. Look at how gross and and I would and I'm supposed to be her cheerleader. I'm supposed to be like agreeing with how she looks. I'm like, Mom, you're beautiful. Like, no, I am not agreeing with you. But then

Sarah | I'm trying to find something for you here because I think this is really important. And and this is a conversation that I know, we're not going to dive into with incredible depth today. But we're not when you are ready to I'm your woman. Because here's the thing that's important. Weight loss is net positive for some people. And it is net negative for some people. That being said, diet culture is net negative for everybody. So how do we do the work to really identify how diet culture has impacted us. And if you are our age, we have a very specific set of references, right? Every generation does. 

Robin | Yes

Sarah | How do we recognize how deep that shit really went? So that we can unlearn it the best we can because in today's society, there is almost no way to avoid diet culture. If you are a heavier person, and you feel that weight loss is net positive for you at some point in time in your life, you may want weight loss the process of untangling ourselves from the years of damage and self esteem that we lost and gave to diet culture is unbelievable. And my hope for women, our age and women in general, is that we can just do the best we can with it. Because so many of us and I have a picture I'm going to show you so many of us are introduced to diet culture, before we had our period. 

Robin | Yes.

Sarah | I was introduced to diet culture formally when I was like seven or eight. So I was in Weight Watchers, when I was like seven or eight, I went to fat camp for the first time when I was 12, turning 13. Okay, there's no fucking way

Robin | Imagine, imagine that

Sarah | There's no fucking way that a child who hasn't had their period who hasn't learned to develop any sort of self esteem,  I'll find it for you later, I'm going to send it to you is focused more on weight loss than uncovering what is truly unique about them. Especially since so many of us who were indoctrinated into this were actually just healthful children a very average not heavyweights and how,

Robin | Right

Sarah | How much of how much different would our lives have been if all of that time we spent as children and adolescents, all that time that we spent thinking about how to change our bodies, if we took that time and we spent it to saying what am I really fucking good at? What am I really interested in? What what lights me up? What's my secret sauce, and part of Soul Archaeology for people who have had a relationship to their weight, and also not right I make no joke of me No, no pretense of hiding the fact that I say I teach self love to plus eyes with an old enough to remember life before the internet because it's very important that we allow for that, that diversity of representation. That being said, if you have had a body journey or a weight journey of any kind, your Soul Archeology must include the Soul Archaeology and the self love of body liberation, the two are completely related. You cannot ignore the role that your body liberation has in your greater self love journey and in your Soul Archaeology. 

Robin | I completly agree

Sarah | Intrinsically connected and if you over identify with your body liberation, journey, then you get diet culturly. And if you ignore it, then you lack self accountability. Right? So very fine balance. I fucking love this conversation. And I wish

Robin | We could. We could have a whole episode on this 

Sarah | Because I feel the next part is talking about diet culture, weight loss, personal transformation. And what do we how do we untangle ourselves? 

Robin | Yes, 

Sarah | Sorry 

Robin | I just want to say that I, I want and I need body liberation. I am such a critical I'm such a critic. And the stuff that goes on in my head around my body, it nobody wants to hear that out loud. It's it's so toxic. It is just pure toxic. And it's like in my, and sometimes I do catch myself saying it out loud. Like I heard my mom. And I've got two daughters. It's like, oh, no, like this has to be uncovered and healed. So we're going to talk about that.

Sarah | Parallel to that, if I may make one really quick because I think it's important for like anybody who's not super interested in the body stuff, but what you've, what you've shared is an essential point in general. Recognizing the depth of the nasty things we say to ourselves, which in turn is part of how we self abandon is an essential part. And whether we self abandon when it comes to body stuff, or sex, or weight, or money or relationships. There may be people in life who are very hurtful to us that we do not deserve. But part of our, our growth and healing part of our growth has to be recognizing the role that our narrative and our actions have played with ourselves because one of the things I say in the book, and I don't know if you can relate to this or not, but people can do terrible things to us, but there's, like almost nobody that can hurt my brain more than me in the middle of the night when I'm lonely. I can say all the worst things about myself and believe them. And yes, those are shaped by the experiences I've had with other people. But you're removing yourself from pain, and your Soul Archaeology requires, we see, and observe with both compassion and accountability. How we have self abandoned in the past how we have cock blocked our self love, and I use that word on purpose. And people either like it or they hate it, but they always get it. I know, how are you cock blocking yourself? Because we all know what that means. And it's a shitty expression. But how are you cutting yourself off from scoring in life, and from and from exploding into your greatness? And that is universal, whether it's body stuff or not. 

Robin | Right you say "self abandonmen,  is that thing you do that you don't even realize that you do? And it's what is keeping you from living the life that you really want?" How how do you figure out like, you've got a there's a list. It's an excellent list on pointing out what, how do we self abandon? And what does that look like? Right? You say there is a question I asked the women who gather with me in workshops, it seems simple. Do you trust yourself? And you said most of the time, there's like a resounding yes. 

Sarah | Yeah,

Robin | Right. 

Sarah | Yep. Always

Robin | And then, of course, they trust themselves. And then you say, "do you trust yourself to always have your own back? Can you really, truly say that you support yourself fully every day." And then the yes's get softer, and more more muted, right? You say "self abandonment is that thing you do that you probably don't even realize you do? It's time to start seeing how we play an active role in not getting the things we really truly want." Holy crap. How do you how do you help people understand or uncover the Soul Archaeology part, around self abandonment?

Sarah | So here's the thing that I think is really important to acknowledge. I am not a therapist, I'm not a fancy coach. What I am is somebody that creates places emotionally and physically, where you can start to facilitate self awareness. That's it. My job is to help bring you to the table of your own self love. And I do that by sharing my shit and offering you some strategies and ways that you can do that. My hope is that people do some of this stuff I share and they go oh.Holy shit. I'm going to take that to a therapist. And then you 

Robin | Right 

Sarah | Explore the depth. So self abandonment, and I have a wonderful checklist and maybe I'll offer this for you to share with your audience. I have abandonment, stop screwing yourself over checklist. I have a checklist that is like a list of like, I don't know how many things that we may do that self abandonment is. So let's start by defining what self abandonment is. How's that? Okay? 

Robin | Yes, please.

Sarah | Self abandonment is something that happens in real time. We cannot abandon in the past, right, we can only abandon in the present. Yes, we can have abandoned things in the past, but in the present is when we either abandon or don't. So when we self abandon, in the present, we are given a choice in the moment to either support ourselves or not. And when we self abandon, we are choosing to not, now the majority of the time, especially if you've never thought about this stuff before, the way you self abandon is so ingrained in your life, that you have no idea what you're fucking doing when you're doing it. And in fact, it's your normal, and it can feel good, and it can feel safe, even though it's twisted. And even though it doesn't really serve you the way we self abandon can be usually our norm. So the way to start to realize if we're self abandoning or not, is to start really being honest about what hurts you. If you are not willing to be honest about what is painful in life, you will never be able to move forward from it, which is why we do this shit one at a time because pain can be layers and layers of stuff. So let me let me give you an example. And there are many very brutal would you say, brutal examples in the book of ways that I self abandoned but I say that with nothing but love. i started my work on myself when I was like 35-36. And I was 35-36. Like, I think I was 35 both of my parents ended up in the hospital at the same time and I was like, holy shit, I'm going to die. My mom had a huge heart episode, my dad had a very intense history of heart disease. And he was in a different hospital in New Jersey at the same time, and my relationship to my body, and my weight became very real. But also, I realized that I was 35. And everybody else I knew and loved was getting married and having kids. And I was having sex with dudes who wanted to bend me over and smack my ass and see my tits. And it was the same thing again, and again, there was no depth, and I wanted depth, I wanted depth. And I felt at that moment, I saw that if I didn't do something different, I would never have depth. So I started my journey by realizing, without knowing that I was doing it, that the way I was showing up in my personal relationships were not helpful for me. And the relationship that I have to food in my body was not helpful. Those were two ways that I was self abandoning. I was self abandoning when it came to sex and personal relationships. I was self abandoning when it came to food and my weight and a gazillion other things that being said, took me about two years, right, worth of conscious work at the level that I was capable of, because as we practice this, we get better at it. It took me two years to realize that a relationship that I had had when I was 17, turning 181-9 and 20 was actual sexual abuse by coercion. We can only see what we can see when we can see it. So you have to start with what hurts me right now. What kind of self abandoning, am I doing right now? And using that as a flashlight, to allow ourselves to dig deeper and dig deeper and deeper. Does that mean does that make sense and resonate? 

Robin | It makes perfect sense

Sarah | And I hope it does not been. Self abandonment is about recognizing the ways we are perpetuating our own pain and we can get so good at this, like gold medal champions. This is our life and it feels normal. 

Robin | I'm going to read some Can I read some things about, can I read? 

Sarah | Please 

Robin | some of the lists

Sarah | Can you do interpretive dances at the same time?

Robin | I will, no you know

Sarah | I just wan t to let you know I am deeply moved. Like deeply moved. That my words have resonated with you and that you are reading them to me, I want to thank you for that gift.

Robin | Thank Thank you, Sarah. I really am moved by you and your work and and I am excited to I am doing my Soul Archaeology. I really am. And there's a lot of shit coming up. Trust me and I want to do it. 

Sarah | Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's make a self love to do list for you one day. Let's do that. 

Robin | Yeah, of course we will

Sarah | Let's do like let's turn it into a blog post and shit. Like we'll do that. 

Robin | Oh my god , like oh my god. Okay Sarah.  I just got before I read some some of these ways that we self abandon, I just want to tell us a story. It happened. So we arrived in Maui two days ago. And there is something about when, I when I come here. The first day is always hard. And I don't and I you know what I what I uncovered, I'm using serious terminology here. What I uncovered was that every time I come to Maui, like, first of all this place, the energy here is so incredibly powerful. And love, like this island is is like the whole piece of land that we are on. And the water surrounding is love it is it's saturated in love. And so when you arrive in a place like this, that is so powerful. You cannot be you can't you can't not be moved by it. Right? Because you're coming into a different force that you're not used to. And what does that come with? That comes with uncovering your shit. Like isn't that interesting? Through the power of love it's like this force coming in and like moving you and for me. I was walking the beach and I'm like, all this shit is going through my head. And just and I'm feeling very sad, like incredibly sad. And I'm like, how is this making sense? And my brain is saying, Robin, you just look around. It's so beautiful. Like you're surrounded. But look, there's whales. And like, there's all these families having fun and they're jumping in the water and they're like, there is so much love, right and like why are you being sad? This doesn't make sense, right? So I'm like kind of fighting myself. And then I'm like, and I'm having these memories of my twin who died, and my dad who died. And then I'm having these memories of my childhood coming to Maui as a family. And it's just bringing up a lot of stuff. So then later on, I'm having a conversation with this man that I'm seeing. And he's just, he's so full of love. And he's just like, You know what? And I was just telling him, I'm like, this doesn't make sense. Like, why am I so sad? Right? So, I don't want to self abandon, I don't want to abandon the fact that I am having these feelings. I want to go into it and, and maybe it's just like, go through it, feel it and be okay with being sad. Alright, I digress. But

Sarah | Can I can I share something? Can I kind of respond to that real quick, um, what, what, what could have happened and again, you know, not Dr. Phil over here. But when you remove yourself from the daily life, were you are, you sort of forced to be on edge, and you are forced to sort of live defensively and assertively, and where you are surrounded by all this shit is coming at you, right. And that's what life is like, life is about all the shit that is designed to remove us from ourselves. We don't hear our own stuff, there's no quiet, there's no space, there's no room for us. And when you put yourself in a situation, where your body does not have to be in fight anymore, and where you don't have to be on edge. And where you get that immediate smack of holy shit, I'm in a safe, beautiful loving place, and I no longer I know, I can drop my guard. That is when there's mental room for all that shit that was sitting there on the back to like, flood to the top. And that's one of the reasons why like, when I run retreats, I try and make these safe places where all of the extra stressors don't exist, so that you can listen to yourself more clearly. Because everything that we do in life right now our phones being in our hands, the food that we eat, everything is designed to keep us out of here. And somewhere else right here or here, wherever when we are able to listen, is when we start to see. And it is only when we brush off that dirt that there's room for all of that stuff to start to come. So especially when you're going straight from here to BAM this is beautiful and loving and safe and holy shit. I can relax I can I can breathe now. Yeah, that's just gonna flow through you like right gonna make a really inappropriate joke, but women will understand this and it will help make this moment is a very me thing. You know where you're on your period, and it's heavy flow day and you stand up and it all goes whoosh, so why somebody's listening to the men are horrified but somebody knows. That's what it's like, when you danger staying up and your situation really quick, where all of a sudden, you don't have to fight you don't have to ever and you're in a place where there's room for you. Those feelings those things go. So fucking let him push. Let him go see them. Listen to them You don't have to over identify with them. But you know, for fuck sake, give them room and see them because that is your ultimate you like speaking to you. That is your communication. And I know it sucks because it feels weird. It feels painful. And nobody likes that painful stuff. But we don't make peace with that painful stuff. Unless we realize that we can hang out with it, and be totally okay. And that's what you experienced. So yeah good job.

Robin | You've just Yes. Well, thank you, sweetie, what you what you just reminded me of, or helped me see is that, like, I'm grieving. Right? I'm grieving more of the losses of those two men in my life that were so important. And it's like, and I feel like I what I was thinking in my head is like Robin, you know, you've, you've really done your grieving, like you've cried on you've cried in bed for days. And, you know, you've you've gone through that, but actually right now, I'm going through more grief. And that's okay. But that's what's being uncovered right now in my life. And, and I, you know, like, just, just a few days ago, I was crying for two hours over them like and that's okay. Like, I'm like, okay, Robin, you're grieving again. And you don't have to fight it. Just go go go through it. So, okay, now, what I want to do is I just want to read a few things. Because I checked off, I checked off the ways I'm self abandoning.  Anybody reading this book. So this is pages 147 and 148.

Sarah | We're going to give this to  your people, right, we're gonna give them the checklist. Yeah, you'll let me do that? Okay, great.

Robin | The big list hopefully not so scary self abandonment it. I isolate myself from people I really want to be liked. It's my fault when people are upset, I spend a lot of energy trying to please people. I check this one, I am super critical of myself. That is for sure. I feel like I have to prove that I'm ready to others. I need attention in order to feel valuable. I go along with what other people think or do even though I don't agree, Oh, this one, I complain a lot. Or I know my body is ugly. Oh, thank you just think about like, these are things that are it's, it's sad, but true. And you're like, these are these are like programs running in our in our heads. And like you said, a lot of times we don't know that we're doing it, we're unaware. Right? So I this list goes on and on. But it's excellent. Because it really for me, I checked off quite a bit. I'm like, okay, Robin, these are the areas that you can focus on. Like, once you know, you know, right. 

Sarah | And here's what's really interesting about this Robin, right. And you might touched on this a little bit in our live the other day, and I hope we get a chance to touch on it again. There are a lot of people out there who teach self help. And a lot of the shit is really the same. Because we're talking about sort of basic concepts and self exploration and human behavior, but sometimes through people's vulnerability, and how they share it radiates with us differently.

Robin | Right, yup

Sarah | It's, it's not magic, it's truth. And that's why vulnerability and representation in the space matters so much because we never know with whom we are going to see ourselves. And that brings us to the table, right? And listen, a lot of teachers talk about this shit. In my book, I call it the movies in our mind, we have movies in our mind, that we learned at some point in time in our life, about who we are and what we are worth. And at the time, those movies helped us move through with survival. And we did them again and again. And those movies played in our head again and again. And movies can be my body is ugly, who wants to touch me or everybody loves my sister more than me because she's pretty and thin. Or I'm only valuable if I'm giving a man sex or my sexuality is a dangerous thing or don't complain, because nobody likes a complainer never speak up, right? If I ask anybody to tell me right now, that one pernicious thing that they think we all know what it is, right? These are the movies in our mind. And the movies in our mind are directly related to how we self abandon, our movies in our mind, tell us the story of how and why we learn to self abandon. And if we are not willing to see that, we can't write a new movie, can't write a new movie where Robin can turn around and say, my 46 year old body exactly as it is, is divine. And it doesn't need to be perfect. Because it's fine. And however it is that I am meeting it right now is good. Unless we see the narratives, like you just said the body stuff is real big for you. Right? We can't We can't write a new movie that supports us instead of diminishes us. 

Robin | Wow I just love that. So Sarah, let's talk about some strategies and tools like that right there is right you're gonna you're gonna help me write my self love my self love list right?

Sarah | Oh, yeah. Yeah. So the self love to do list. Yeah. 

Robin | Self love to do list. Okay, so tell tell us about that. Okay, tell us about writing yourself love to do list and how are you?

Sarah | In order to understand this what I won. In their monkey I have a very large foster fail dog who's hanging out with me, right, well, she's fine, 100 pounds and she thinks she's a lap dog.

Robin | Okay. What's her name?

Sarah Sapora  

Her name is Eliza and named after Liza Minnelli. You're gonna say that? Yeah. Because when we Dell, when I got her during COVID like everybody did. You have like a really long like, this is not your name. It's just not her name. And I was at my home office. And because I am a former theater girl. I was listening to Liza with the Z. It's less with a Z not Lisa with an s because Lisa was an S goes nuts. Right? It's liza Minnelli song. And all of a sudden, this bitch who I love to death, you know what I mean.  She started barking I was like holy shit. Is your name Liza. Are you like are you Liza Minnelli of Las Vegas? 

Robin | Is that your name? 

Sarah | Yeah. Oh my god. So we started calling her Liza Minnelli in Las Vegas then we realized that she absolutely thought she was a pretty pretty princess. So she's not Liza but Eliza bless her heart. 

Robin | Oh that is so cute. 

Sarah | So here's what I want people to understand. When we think of self love right now most people think of pampering yourself and treating yourself and bubble baths and it's okay that you think that because everything in marketing and business exists to tell you that self love is really about the word I'm having like a like a 45 year old woman and not remembering the word but like, pampering yourself is self love. Now, I'm not saying that it can't be, but I don't believe that's what self love is. There is that self care. That's being nice to yourself. Okay. 

Robin | Yes

Sarah | To me, I have a very specific definition of self love, self love his any thought that you think, or any action that you do that connects you and brings you closer to your ultimate you, now, what is your ultimate you? Again, a lot of people talk about these expressions, your highest self, you're baaabbbaaabba that whatever, I have a specific definition for ultimate you is the greatest version of you. But it is not defined by any of the shit that we think it is as women. And we're told that it it is not defined by your age or weight, the size of your breasts, whether you're married or single, what color your areas or how big your social media profile is, are any of the things that are the markers we are told, make us valuable. Your ultimate you is defined by two things. And folks, I want you to hear me on this. Your ultimate you is defined by one your ability to at any point in time, connect to yourself, and be really honest about what you're feeling what's going on and what's happening. It is your ability to connect to yourself. Notice that you cannot connect to yourself when you are self abandoning. You cannot connect to yourself when you are coping to the point of self anesthetistation whether it is with alcohol or food or sex or drugs or whatever, right. Through connection to self based on compassion, and accountability, not letting yourself get away with shit through sight is your ultimate you. The second part of this is your commitment and willingness to take action that serves you based on what you learn. So your commitment to yourself and your willingness and ability to follow through with whatever you need that serves you. So let's just recap this. I'm like a stewardess right now. Self love is any thought you think or action you do that connects you to your ultimate you and your ultimate you is the version of you that is defined by two things, your ability to radically vulnerabilbly, vulnerably whatever, connect to yourself, and listen and ask and be honest and self compassionate about what you're feeling. You're not bullshitting yourself, your ultimate you never bullshit themselves. And also your ultimate you is fierce as fuck when it comes to showing up for you. So if we think about those things, how do we create our ultimate you? How do we touch that person and get to know that person? Well, diet culture would tell us that we are a before in a middle and an after before we are broken and we are shitty, and we are worthless, and we are awful. We are the before photo. Right? Then we say holy shit. I'm broken and shitty, and I want to be perfect. So I'm gonna work on ourselves. And then we get all this social equity from stepping up to the plate of whatever it is that we decide we want to work on. Now, all of a sudden, we're fucking cool, because we're working on shit. And we're showing progress shots, and it's all sexy, and bla bla bla, and then, oh my god. We are the finished product. We have hit our goal. We have made the six figures we have gotten the man and gotten married, we have lost our weight and we are both we have hit it and now we are at the most valuable, perfect version of ourselves, and that lasts for around 20 minutes before real life starts to kick in. And we are starting to fall away from that. diet culture has us convinced that the way to get to our greatest version of ourselves is to be a before and a middle and an after. I believe that the greatest way we can serve ourselves is to live in service of our ultimate you and to journey along with life and continually meet ourselves based on what is self loving at any given time. So, for example, you just care that you are working through grief of loss. I have been doing that as well, too, my dad passed in August, but the version of ourselves in the immediate aftermath of grief and loss, whether it's death or something else, is a dramatically different version of self love, and who that ultimate you is, than, when we are in a place in our life in our career when we're dialed in, and things are going, you know, awesome, and we're feeling really powerful, right? We need to let life meet us where we are at and say, what is the ultimate version of me right now? How do I want to be experiencing life? And what can I do to get there? So my long way of saying, a self love to do lists, is a tangible checklist, because let's be honest, we fucking love checklists. And if our self care or self love only exists in mala beads and meditations and woo things, and memes on the internet, we're not going to do shit. We have to make a list of tiny little things and changes that we can do, that our self love for us. Things we can think actions we can take stuff that we can do. That is considered self love for us, because it helps connect us to our ultimate you. And basically what we do is, you know, none of us are fucking stupid if we're really listening to ourselves in life, and not trapped here in here. We know when we're walking into a new chapter, we know it, we feel it right. Every time we walk into a new chapter in life, every time we feel stuck, every time something's not right, but we don't know what to do. We come back to the table and we say, what's hurting me right now? How do I want to be experiencing my life? And we create a new self love to do list. And we just only that way, we journey in life in service, of uncovering who we are, knowing that there is no before and after. Knowing that the version of Sarah and Robin at 27 is very different than in 37.  37 is gonna be very different than 47. We are not a finished product. Life will continually be asking us to listen and adjust. And I don't mean to say that we should not strive for greatness, because we should, we should we should, we should all be allowed to feel hope that we can live greater. And we should all feel empowered to use tools to live greater. No matter where we are, no matter what we weigh, no matter how old we are, no matter is women taking us in our demographic. No matter how viable or not viable, we feel we're starting to get because people stopped talking to us and the media stops paying attention to us. And all of a sudden, we're reconciling our identity as women in a changing time. When we're no longer as valuable as we were, our value is but we're smarter and fiercer and more self aware than we ever were, and holy shit. Till the day that we are no longer breathing, hope and tools should in theory, be accessible to us. And self love can meet us at the road where ever we are. As long as we're committed to it.

Robin | Wow. Okay, now yeah, I just I really, I have so loved our conversation, Sarah, and everybody, I just want people to read your book and start working on your Soul Archaeology. Like because this, this is a doable approach. And I and like you said, like your self love actions are, it's a working document. We're working, work in progress working process, whatever. 

Sarah | Yeah. Life is process, right? We're not a work in progress, trying to land on the magic and then be fixed. We just accept that life is the process until we're dead and then it's no longer and then it's a different process, right? That's life yeah, that's life.

Robin | Sarah, you aren't like my new favorite friend. And I love you. And I thank you so much for our time today I'm going to close our conversation with a blessing. And these are this is based on your words that I am the sentiments that I've lessons I've learned from you this week. May we release beliefs and judgments about being broken or needing to be fixed, healed or unhealed, worthy or unworthy. May we come to understand that to live a self loving life means that we embrace that we are ever changing. There is no fixed version of us. May we know the healing journey has no before or after. It's an ever present evolving journey. And may we move away from self abandonment in order to return to oneself, learning to listen and decide to value ourselves enough to prioritize what we need. This is how we can live and uncover our ultimate you. So I thank you, Sarah, Sapora. I'm looking forward to our IG live. And I am also looking forward to our growing friendship because I know, 

Sarah | Me too 

Robin | We are friends. And we are going to continue this.

Sarah | Yeah, no, I mean, I listen. I'm your gal. I've told you I've I've admired and appreciated and followed your community work for a long time. And I was, you know, I was honored when you when you guys reached out, yes. And I'm honored to, you know, listen, I'm a I'm a 45 year old plus size woman who's working on her body and her life and her love and I hope that I can offer some women in your community, a way to feel safe and seen that they can relate to you in different ways. So I'm here for you guys. Thank you. Thank you 

Robin | That's wonderful, thank you. Thank you so much for listening. Visit realloveready.com to continue learning with us. Please rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the tools and guidance you need to form more loving relationships and create positive change in your life. We at Real Love Ready acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage you to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well. Many blessings and much love.