Bryan Reeves - Supporting Men's Relational Growth

In this episode of Let's Talk Love, Robin sits down with internationally renowned author, and relationship coach, Bryan Reeves. Bryan’s work is supporting men (and women) to have better lives and thriving relationships. Together, they discuss transforming relationships through emotional connection and empathy. Bryan shares a collection of true stories, insights and tools from his book, Choose Her Every Day (or Leave Her):  A Guide for Your Journey Through the Transformational Fires of Love & Intimacy.   He offers practical ways for building conscious relationships by understanding masculine and feminine energies, addressing emotional disconnection, and improving communication skills when conflicts arise.

Join us in Vancouver (or virtually) at In Bloom this April 12-14, 2024!

https://realloveready.com/in-bloom-a-love-and-relationships-summit-2024

We want to hear from you! Send us your anonymous questions for the Podcast as well as our weekly IG Live Ask The Experts Q&A. https://realloveready.com/submitaquestion

Learn more with Bryan Reeves:

Choose Her Every Day (or Leave Her): https://bryanreeves.com/book/

Podcast: https://bryanreeves.com/menthiswaypodcast/

Free Training for Men: https://training.elevaterelationship.com/

FOLLOW BRYAN REEVES: INSTAGRAM | FACEBOOK  | X

FOLLOW RLR: INSTAGRAM | FACEBOOK | X

Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready

Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Today I had an excellent conversation with Bryan Reeves. Bryan is a former US Air Force captain, and is now thriving as an internationally renowned author, and life relationship coach, with a current focus on supporting men to have better lives and relationships. He's the co-founder of Elevate Your Relationship Alive program for men ready to elevate the relationship game, which has served men in over 10 countries. He's the host of the podcast Men This Way, and his viral blog has been read by over 30 million people across the globe. Today, we had an enlightening conversation about his newest book, Choose Her Every Day Or Leave Her, A Guide For Your Journey Through The Transformational Fires of Love and Intimacy. This title alone speaks volumes to me. I wholeheartedly agree that our intimate partnerships can be a powerful container for our individual and collective growth and transformation. In this chat, Bryan shares, tools and skills that we can all use to build more conscious, caring, and life affirming relationships in our lives. Enjoy. 

Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information, and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme. Now. Let's Talk Love. 

Hello, everyone and welcome to Let's Talk Love. Today we're going to be talking so much about love as we do every week. Today we're going to be meeting and talking with Bryan Reeves, Bryan, you are a life and relationship coach and an author of this incredible book. I loved it. It's called Choose Her Every Day or Leave Her, A Guide For Your Journey Through the Transformational Fires of Love and Intimacy. Thank you for being with us, Bryan, we're gonna talk about the transformational fires of love and intimacy.

Bryan Reeves | Hi Robin, you know, even speaking as a guy, it's actually one of my favorite things to talk about, which I know is unusual in the world. But I love it. I'm excited. Thank you for having me on.

Robin Ducharme | Oh, me too. I was having a little visit with my mom on the phone this morning. And I said, today I'm going to be speaking to a coach that specializes in working with men around relationships. I know that your audience is also filled with women. But you do have a large percentage of men that you are helping So Bryan this is, like your a rarity. Like there's there's not a lot of male coaches out there that are specializing working with men in relationships. So this is kudos to you. And I think it's such important work.

Bryan Reeves | I definitely did not choose an easy path in life. I thought okay, what is the hardest thing that I could possibly do as a coach, I know, get men to talk about their relationship challenges. Sign me up. I'm in. Actually, that's not at all how it happens. I kicked in, like like many men, when we come into doing deep relationship work, I dragged my feet, I kicked in screem and said no, I don't want to do it. I don't want to work with men. But life life essentially gave me no choice. I mean, that's not entirely true. Obviously, I have choice. But I'm and I'm so glad that I get to do this work with men because men need so much support. But that's part of the challenge is we don't like to ask for support. We don't think we need support until life makes it abundantly clear that unless we get outside support, help, we're just going to continue running into dead ends and not having lives and the love that we really even men are aching for. 

Robin | Yes.

Bryan | I'm curious what did your mom say? I'm just curious. Where's your mom say?

Robin | My mom was like, right on. This is exactly what we need. We need men and coaches talking about love and relationship, that's exactly what you said. 

Bryan | Yeah. 

Robin | So, Bryan, you've got so your book is a collection of essays, sharing your journey in relationships. You talk about how, you know, years ago, you had a career working as an Air Force captain. 

Bryan | Yep. 

Robin | And this was this to me was a great learning because it really shone the light on which I can imagine when I read it, I was like that makes perfect sense on how your experience in that environment in that career, I mean, doing that kind of work you it's taught and you're trained to almost to disengage from your emotions, disengage from your feelings,

Bryan | Yeah

Robin | They, you know, you, they don't want you to be it's almost like take the human out of view so that you can do the job that you have to do. Right. Can you talk about that, please? Because I think the fact that I'm going to tell a bit more about this, from my perspective on my learning when I read this in your book, is the fact that you were in that state and you lived it for quite a while in your career. And then when you had to come back into your body and your feelings, it's like that experience like taught you a lot too. So,

Bryan Reeves  

Yeah,Terry Real identifies this the psychologist Terry Real who also is specializes in working with men brilliant, brilliant teacher and elder in this space, relational space. He identifies the original wound of men and our culture is disconnection. Disconnection 

Robin | Wow 

Bryan | Yeah, they were taught to disconnect not feel our feelings. The original and interestingly, just little side note, the original wound for for women is disempowerment. Well, you can't you can't do what boys do. You can't do this. You can't do that. Right? So, you know, here I am. 26 I've been in the Air Force for 10 years, I've been a boy in this culture for you know, 26 years now. And I can't feel anything. I'm so disconnected from my body. I can't feel I can't. You know, it's common knowledge that men struggle to cry. But what doesn't really get talked about as men also don't really know how to fully laugh. Like authentic full body from the belly laugh?

Robin | Wow I've heard that

Bryan | Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because we're very truncated in our in our emotional range. You know, if we chop off all the bad feelings, if we if we we clench down around the negative feelings, well, how the hell are we going to feel true joy and true enthusiasm. We don't so much of our joy and enthusiasm or is performative. You know, we want to be the happy go lucky guy around the other guys around our friends, we want to laugh and be the life of the party or just not be exiled from the party, so we play along, we put on the show, and, and, um, you know, that was certainly me at 26. I just couldn't feel anything. And, you know, from that place, I tried to do intimate relationships with women. And it was a, it was just a catastrophe over and over and over. And so, you know, I've always been, and this is true for so I believe this to Robin for most men, underneath the armor and the programming, we are deeply sensitive, deeply loving creatures. We yearn to love and be loved just like any woman does. Any person does. I think that's a core human drive to love and be loved, perhaps one of the most primal drives to belong, right. For belonging. It's even babies, right? Babies that are fed food but never held die. They don't survive infancy 

Robin | Right, that's right

Bryan | If they aren't held, picked up touched, loved in some in some meaningful way. And so it's true for men that we deeply yearn to love and be loved. But because of the programming because of that, that original wound of disconnection, we show up then in intimate relationships. And, you know, in my case, like I was very educated, I had a master's degree in human relations, for goodness sakes, human effing relations. Messed up. I'm a master in human relations, rather take that in. And my relationships with women sucked. I was so bad at it. 

Robin | Yeah

Bryan | Despite being educated, again, being very professional, and as a captain in the Air Force, also having three sisters and two moms. Like, if anybody should know how to do relationship with women, I'm, the guy, I was horrible. I because I had no idea what I was doing. I had no idea what women wanted from me. Honestly, I didn't really know what I wanted from women. And, and I had no concept of connection and in how to connect and what that meant. I was just, and I think this is the state of for so many, so many men, especially and certainly many women too.

Robin | Yes. That's it's so it is. It is fascinating, because you were surrounded by strong women role models

Bryan | I was

Robin | Right. You had three sisters. 

Bryan | Two moms on top of it

Robin | Right. And your two moms and you're right. In the book, there's just so much to talk about Bryan, but you you do talk about how there was, you know, how important it is to have a very healthy male role model as a boy, as a growing up and and you didn't have that with your dad? 

Bryan | No, 

Robin | And how important that really is. Can we start there, and then,

Bryan | Yeah, well, I mean, who do we learn as is also speaking from the frame of being a man identifying as a man. Well how do we learn about what it means to be a man but from from other men from elder men from the men who would show us the way into manhood? It's not I mean, this is this is a deep conversation or a rabbit hole that we could spend the entire our entire conversation talking about, but just just very briefly, you know, boys, we get testosterone we get all of that that sort of does these biological things but but when it comes to how does a man talk to a woman? How does a man orient towards love towards relationship, towards purpose towards the community towards nature, etc? Well, how are we going to learn that from but other men most of us, though, it certainly wasn't my case, we actually learned more about being a man from women in terms of what women expected, and in certainly, I'm 49. So in my generation women, my elder women, were mostly just angry at men. A lot of the rise of feminism which, by the way, I'm totally a feminist, not in the not in the way that a lot of people use it pejoratively. But by being a feminist, to me, it's like the original wound is women for women is disempowerment. It's just about empowering women making sure that women have all the opportunities that men have. Right. So where was I going with this, Robin? What am I saying male role models, right. Male role models. So most of us men were looking up, you know, as boys, we're looking up to the elder men around us, and they're so disoriented. You know, 

Robin | They're disconnected

Bryan | They're are disconnected. Absolutely. I mean, there was alcoholism in my upbringing of men and again, just disconnect, you know, needing alcohol to feel or a regulator which doesn't work. And, or there was stoicism, men that are completely emotionally not available living in their heads. You know, making up all kinds of judgments and stories about life and religion and all these things are just like on a deeply primal visceral level, like my young boy body knows. That's not very trustable I don't like this. You know, it's like the two extremes of, of male role model we had was either the dominating imposing tyrant or the weak impotent pushover. You know, one of those two, those are generally the, for most of us, looking up into the adult males it was those are the two options we had you either be the dominating tyrant that that conquers on the on the sports field, in the streets, in the bedroom in the boardroom. Or you're the nice guy, be the pushover just go along, just go with the flow, don't rock the boat. Neither of those set, neither of those, those models of man set us up for success in relationships. And so, a lot in my case, it was just paralyzing. I didn't know what to do. I just kind of got frozen in my body frozen, because I didn't want to be the dominating tyrant. But I sure didn't want to be the weakling pushover either. So I didn't know what to do. I just froze. And again, now I'm in relationship in my late 20s doing relationship with women, frozen. And that was painful for everybody.

Robin | Yep. So in your book, I've just like really, Bryan, I've been talking to different people about it, because the my learnings, I'm like, wow, that is just so Oh, that's so valid, that like, that's my experience, like, we know this, but I love it, it's in writing. So there's, you really do a great job of explaining feminine and masculine and this is not in particular, like it's not female, male, okay. And you say, masculine, the masculine seeks freedom, the feminine seeks connection, I would love for you to talk more about this, please. It's like the fundamentals inside of that energy of feminine and masculine. And those it seems like they're opposing? And how, and how we each have feminine and masculine inside of us. But can we go into that please?

Bryan | Yeah, I think that's actually a great way to enter it because there's a lot of I think there's a lot of baggage with those terms. There's a lot of people will object to masculine and feminine. And I understand that. And there's a lot of there's a lot of even teachers, they tend to be a little on the younger side, in the in the influencer sphere, that are imposing, you know, this is what men do. This is what women do. This is what masculine does, this is what feminine does. And I think that that's really damaging and harmful, actually. 

Robin | Me too

Bryan | So I like the frame that I like to enter it is just those two values. You know, David Deida is really the OG teacher in this domain and, but just distilling all that down to the two values of connection versus freedom, the masculine value of freedom and the feminine value of connection And when people start to understand that these two very primal values are what is that are what is dancing in relationship, it opens up a whole new way of being with intimacy. And what I mean by that is like, when I, before I was aware of this, you know, my core values more freedom doesn't mean connection isn't important. But I, I, I default to freedom as a core as the core value, in this primal dance of dualities, right. And so what would happen is in my relationships with with women whose core value tended to be connection, not that freedom was an important to them, of course, it was in the same way not that connection was important to me, it just wasn't, it wasn't the predominant value at play in my, in my nervous system. In my program, I thought all of it. So I approached every relationship like, hey, this is a place where we get to feel free, me and you. So everything I did, on some subtle level was about creating freedom for me, for her. The problem with that is the vat that connection value was not tended to Well, I had no idea what it meant. You know, I had this experience. So I was in this relationship. In fact, the subject of choose her every day or leave for I was it was a relationship I was in for five years. Where I wasn't I wasn't, I said I was all in, but I wasn't, you know, and my actions revealed that but again, I was so internally divided. Anyway, we would get into these arguments, Robin, where I would start to feel like I'm trapped. There's no, there's nothing I can say that will get that will end this argument that will get us out of this, so I feel trapped, I would begin to walk to the door be like I can't I there's nothing I can do here to free us. I didn't use those words, Robin. But that was what was at play in my mind. And my thinking is like, if you if you would just see the way I want you to see it, we'll be free of whatever the hell is happening here. We can put it behind us. And then we can rest right? And when that wouldn't work, because it's not she wasn't wanting to be freed in some way. She was wanting to feel connected with me, but I didn't get that. So I'm fighting for freedom over here, thinking I'm trying to do as both a service. She's not into it. I'm getting more and more and more trapped. So I would eventually be like, I need to leave the room. I have to leave. She was not okay with that. She would walk to the door and lock it, Robin she would lock it.

Robin | And now you're locked in right? And the

Bryan | Talk about trapped. 

Robin | Don't control me. Right? Like the freedom. You talk about this to Bryan. I'm like the like the I guess what, how you would describe this, because of course you teach this

Bryan | The objection the masculine objection

Robin | The objection is don't control me, which is the opposite of freedom. You the feelings of being controlled.

Bryan | Don't tell me what to do. Now on the opposite is what's happening for her. I mean, why is she locking the door? It seems like a really dumb thing to do. Why would you do that? Why would anyone do that? I would never do that to you. How could you do right? Again, that's the freedom thought. And again, I'm not saying that this isn't important to people whose core value is more connection, of course it is. But it's like it's the it's the it's the go to it's the it's the predominant value that is at play, it's like so what's happening for her on that side. Again, I didn't know this at the time, but in retrospect, I get it. She was very unskillfully in the same way that I was unskillfully trying to create freedom for me and for her. She was unskillfully trying to connect she locked the door because at least you don't leave

Robin | Don't leave me. 

Bryan | Don't leave me that's the feminine objection in any relationship argument or disagreement is don't leave me alone in this. Don't abandon me in this, right and what was I about to do but abandoned her. Leave her alone disconnect. I was already disconnected but I'm like now okay, I'm really out now. Well lock the door so at least at least we can stay here and keep fighting. It's an unhealthy form of connection but it'll still connection. We're at least we're connected. At least I'm not gone from the room. So you know this cycle. I see this. I've been working with couples for 10 years now. And I've seen this cycle over and over not quite it doesn't always look the same. It isn't always a woman that is more a stand for connection. Sometimes the woman is more stand for freedom first, but you know what I had to learn, was that my, my my role my isn't to just set my partner free. Right that's about me. What I can do is help my partner feel connected. Right? What I needed to learn is how do I connect with my partner? How do I help her feel connected? Because I notice inside of that when she feels connected then she feels more free. In the same way, in reverse, what my partner's had to learn is, well, how do I help him feel more free? And again, there's there's there's caveats, and it doesn't mean not having boundaries, it doesn't mean giving me permission to just, you know, run amuk in my life and do whatever the hell I want to regardless of the impact, of course not. Well, how can she speak to me? What language can she use? How can she orient towards me in a way that doesn't give me the impression that she's trying to control me or take away my agency? That's very important to me. And when she's able to do that, and you know, my wife Sylvie does that wonderfully? We both had to learn some new things in our first few years together, but we're very practiced at it, when she so she can do that. So ah, that helps me relax, and then I feel more connected. So it's like it's a, it's a very interesting dance that when we're unaware of of this dance, things just don't go well.

Are you ready to take your relational skills to the next level? Join us April 12, to the 14th 2024 for In Bloom, a love and relationships Summit. Real Love Ready, putting you in the room with 10 of your favorite relationship experts, including Dr. Gabor Mate, Jillian Turecki and Dr. Jody Carrington. Learn from the most trusted names in love with a weekend of skill building, growth, and community, be there in person in Vancouver, BC, or join us virtually from anywhere in the world. Head to realloveready.com to learn more and secure your spot, you can use the code love 15 To save 15% off your tickets. I truly hope to see you there. 

Robin | So one of the stories you tell in your book is around Stan and Sonya and you are coaching them in the living room. And they you know, they're having they're just at a standstill. They're having these repeat patterns that you just described with that you were having with your partner. And they're not getting anywhere. And so you're coaching them. And this is something that I think we've all, I've experienced, and I've heard before from friends or you know, my girlfriend's and it's, they're in the same room, they're talking, and she's saying, I just feel completely disconnected from you. 

Bryan | Yeah, yeah. 

Robin | And he says, what the hell I am right here. 

Bryan | Yeah

Robin | I'm right here. We've been in this discussion where we're being coached. I'm right with you, babe. Like, how is it that you're not feeling connected? Yeah. How is it and it's it's not the it's not about kay. I know you're at that time you were arguing with your girlfriend and she locked you in. Okay, physical, you're there. The disconnection was happening for a while already. I can only imagine. And it's the emotional disconnection. It's the presence. It's how is it that you like when you're coaching people? Bryan, what is the experience? 

Bryan | Yeah, yeah.So men tend to think so long as the bills are paid, the house ain't on fire. I'm not cheating on you or beating you. Or, yeah, we have no problems. Why are you not okay, with our relationship? What is your deal? That's kind of the the sub text going on in many men, again, not all, but many men, right? Functional we're functioning, why are you upset? Why are you having a problem? And that's therein lies the problem we completely don't understand. Not that those things aren't important, right. And I think what happens a lot of men there's a there's a societal pressure, there has been there's a primal drive, we men tend to get rewarded for having resources for being able to provide we have throughout history, we our reproductive opportunities go up if we have more resources, so we can provide for the babies that would result etcetera. And so that that still lives in our DNA, this belief that hey, I all I got to do is show up, provide, do the things that I'm just supposed to do. And this should go fine. You should have no problem

Robin | Exactly like, what's the problem? Why aren't you grateful? Like I'm doing all my job, my jobs are done. I'm like, I'm taking care of the house. I'm taking care of you. Why are you unhappy?

Bryan | I'm not cheating on you. I'm showing that like, and and in this day and age, relationships serve a new purpose that for a lot of history, they largely haven't. And that is emotional connection. It's emotional safety. It's, you know, we don't just need children anymore to plow the fields. We want to have families because we want to experience love and connection. It's we're living in a new era that is unprecedented. I actually have a lot of empathy for men in relationship, in the relationship context, because our forebears our forefathers did not prepare us to be empathic to be influenceable by our partners, like we're not prepared to do relationship in the way that it is expected to be done today. The Gottman Institute identified the top two complaints of women in relationship as he's not there for me, and not enough emotional connection. Right? And again, he's not there for me, most men are gonna say, what does that even mean? We talking about, I do all the things that I'm checking off all the boxes that a man does. But this is the again, this is the mindset, the frame, we're trapped in the masculine I call the masculine reward frame, which is I'm rewarded for my productivity, I'm rewarded for my output, I'm rewarded for the outcomes I create. Which again, if I'm, if I'm in an argument with my partner some difference, the only outcome that in my masculine reward system makes sense is that we resolve the problem, it's fixed, we both feel great, and we're done. And so I'm approaching it, I'm trying to, I'm trying to, to solve a problem that I think I'm being presented with, you know, I'm treating my my, my wife or my girlfriend as a problem to be solved. And she ain't, that's not what she is. But she feels that from me. Now. She's just spiraling further. And the disconnect the feeling of I don't feel connected to you. So coming back to your question, what does that look like when I'm actually working with a couple? Well, first off, it's just it's getting, it's helping couples understand that you're actually not fighting about money, or about sex, or the lack of, you're not fighting about you liking girls photos on social media, and her being pissed off about it. I mean, I know that's the details that you're fighting about. But what you're really, what's really going on underneath is there's a crisis of connection. 

Robin | A crisis of connection

Bryan | So that's connecting place, there's a crisis of connection. And in many cases, no longer a couple has been together, it's it's chronic, and long standing. Such that, you know, even you just load the dishwasher in the way your partner doesn't want you to, and it turns into a full on fight that you end up just resenting and hating each other, it goes on and on and on. So what I'm doing so often is just helping people learn how to connect, and doing that through through through new language, using new language, new ways of responding to upsets and frustrations, new ways of communicating upsets and frustrations. I'm often helping men use their body differently. And one thing that I used to do when when arguments would arise with with any any any partner is I would cross my arms and turn, you know, hold my breath or breathe really shallow across. What am I communicating to my partner? In that stance?

Robin | I'm closed, I'm armoring up.

Bryan | Not available. Right, what's the top complaint? He's not there for me, none of emotional connection. In my body. I'm communicating close, like you said it closed, not available. I'm not on your side. I'm defended. So for example, just the simple act of turning my body towards her dropping my arms, taking some full breaths and relaxing my nervous system. Now I'm on a very visceral, primal level beginning to communicate to her primal brain. Hey, I'm with you. I'm with you. And notice that if the feminine objection is I'm not with you don't leave me alone. Just by my body now I'm starting to soothe speak into that objection in a way that is that is calm, actually comforting.

Robin | Right, I'm using my love that Bryan I love that. And you know, you also love this in the book, you talk about three of the sexiest words. And we could also translate this into like three of the most important words like or you know, the message and this that does you say, for a woman to hear from a man? I got this. I got you. 

Bryan | Yeah yeah, I'm here. I got you. Don't fall. 

Robin | Right. 

Bryan | You won't fall you won't be left alone in this. I mean, that's the message I'm giving through my body through my language. And notice it's not I agree with your conclusions about why you're upset. It's not that, necessarily I mean, you may or may not get to that place but so many couples arguments become they just go on and on and on because they think they have to especially you know, we men think we have to get to that place where I need to agree with your reasons for your upset and so long as I don't agree. We have a problem. And yeah, I mean, yeah, okay, that's going to be true.

Robin | Or find a solution

Bryan | Or find a solution. But oftentimes couples no good solutions ever come from a state of disconnection. No good solutions come from a state of disconnection. You can come up with solutions, but someone's it's not going to work. Or it'll work temporarily. It's a little BandAid, or it's just going to create resentment, you're just building in future resentment, because you didn't really want to do this. Or she doesn't really want to do this. But you know, we got to move forward. So learning how to connect, and that happens in the moments that happens. It's not like, hey, I said, I do six years ago, we're connected woman, what the hell? I said, I do I still wear the ring. What's your problem? No, that's incredibly disconnecting just that stance. Right? So that's a lot of times is we're doing is using body language, teach a lot of communication skills. Because, I mean, that's where so many of us just we're ignorant, because no one ever taught us and with a few little shifts, safety, you know, that big sigh. You know, when, in disconnect in disconnected moments of relationship we are, we tend to hold our bodies very tight. Because we're scared, we're in that old fight or flight, or freeze mode, we're scared where we don't feel partnered with the person in front of us, we actually feel I'm in the presence of an adversary, I need to protect myself from this person. So we hold our bodies tight, like in my case, I cross my arms and turn that's a tightening of closing of my body. Well, that means then that actually I can unwind that, what does that look like right? So I can learn just simple skills or certain language. And it only takes one of us to go first. It doesn't matter who typically, you know, but when I learned and, you know, I spent years learning this even with with my wife some of the things that would help her. Take that big sigh. Okay, wow. It's like, oh, I feel safe. We are on the same side.

Robin | And that, and that is something you talk a lot about to Bryan is how important as women is to feel safe. And the three words for us is, I trust you. I, right, that, that we can say to a man is, 

Bryan | Yeah

Robin | And that takes a lot. That takes a lot. And this was fantastic. You talk about how you were at a large Summit, or conference or learning. And there was 2000 people in the audience. And the teacher asked, yeah, all right, men, I want to ask you, who in the last week out of all of you have, when have you felt unsafe? Then you said like five guys put their hands up right

Bryan | Out of 1000, yep

Robin | Yep. And then he's asking the same question to women. All right, I'd like to know, last week, how many of you have felt unsafe, and like 1000s of women put their hands up.

Bryan | Every hand, some put up two

Robin | Yes, that's the experience that as women as girls, growing up, like, we're, I'm still I was telling, I was talking to a man yesterday about this. And I was saying, for sure, like, I'll go downtown on you know, and it's getting dark, and I'm going back to my car, and I'm looking right, left, right everywhere, like you're already on guard. That's just the reality of living in a female body or woman's body. Just you think that something could happen at any given moment. And so, in an intimate relationship, there's trust piece. And the safety piece is just so important for us, especially with a partner that we are giving ourselves fully to.

Bryan | One of the one of the most beautiful things that I see in working with men, is especially men in long term relationships, where there's been mutual dissatisfaction in the relationship is when men start to have that realization that wake up to oh my god, my wife has never felt safe in the world. And not only has she not felt safe in the world, I finally now understand all the ways that I've been showing up that have caused her to not feel safe.

Robin | Wow 

Bryan | That is a profound realization for men that again, it's not necessarily an easy path forward from there because there's usually a lot of practice that's been required for that man to change the pattern to break the pattern to create new momentum. They in some cases, I've worked with couples that have been together for 40 plus years, where that's all they've been doing is is betraying each other's trust. Not in not by cheating on each other I don't mean but I mean in by you know, expecting sex, for example, because I pay the bills, therefore you should give me sex. I mean, that's a betrayal of a woman's autonomy of her own agency. And yet so many men still carry that expectation. And again, I think it's, it's that social pressure of well, if I'm expected to provide, what do you providing, you provide, give me your body kind of thing. And again, when men start to realize our role, even even, you know, the so called good guy, the guy who's in relationships, like, I'm a good man, I do all the things, I don't hurt her. I don't by physically, I mean, you know, when he starts to realize, oh, my God, whoa, not only is my wife coming into this relationship, having a hard time trusting men, I've been showing her over and over and over that she can't really trust me either. To really be there for her, to advocate for her. That goes off like a bomb in men's heads when they first see it. And it's, it's one of the most beautiful things that I get to witness because so much healing begins to arise so much empathy gets created for men, when they when they start to see their their partners as as as not flawed creatures, you know, men tend to orient towards women as though they're flawed versions of men. Now, now look, you know, women tend to orient towards men often as though we're flawed versions of women. Right, it's the 

Robin | I actually never thought of it that way. But I ok.

Bryan | I see that a lot. You know, men are expecting women to be way more like us. And a lot of women are expecting men to be way more like them. 

Robin | Yeah. 

Bryan | And when when, again, I know we're talking very, very heterosexual terms here. I'm predominantly heterosexual. So just that's the world that is the way that I see the world through. And I tend to speak through these these lenses and filters. But when when a man begins to understand and appreciate that his female partner has a fundamentally different experience in her body in the world, that's the beginning of empathy. That's the beginning of a bridge being built between their experiences that gives them a chance to succeed at relationships.

Robin | I think your book points to so many different ways that we we can change our mindsets. And that what you're saying what you just said, Bryan, is that is like the start. It's the awareness that we are seeing the world differently. We're living in the world differently, and understanding and empathizing with that other side. So that we can it's understood like, right, it's the understanding the acknowledgement, so that you can and then you can move forward differently. 

Bryan | Yeah. And I think to like in the book, you know, it's the book is for men and for women. 

Robin | Oh, yes

Bryan | And I think that's one of the I hope, one of the things I do well, in that book is also help women understand. A lot of women sometimes get angry, because when I when I want to go into this realm says like, I don't want to understand men more, they need to understand me. And I agree, I do agree with that we need to do way more of the heavy lifting. I'm 100% enrolled in that. And though, still, if you're going to be in relationship with a man like, I don't believe in 50-50 relationships, I believe in 100-100

Robin | 100-100 Yes, I was going to say the exact same thing. 100-100

Bryan | So I agree, it's, we men need to step up and, and own our part, take on our 100%. And do that work, do that heavy lifting. Yes, that does not negate still a woman's or the other partners responsibility for their 100%. And it's my hope that even in this book, which I think is the feedback I get is it's very validating for women. And I hope that it also helps women understand, likewise, what men are carrying the burdens that we're carrying the things that like the very first chapter. The title is No One Ever Taught Me How To Be a Man that matters in relationship. 

Robin | It does

Bryan | That matters. I think that's important that that women understand we men are coming in so wounded, so disoriented, left alone by our elders, you know, not only just not trusting other men, so we don't trust ourselves. I mean, we're a mess.

Robin |The way that we operate in relationships, until we start employing these very important skills that we didn't learn in our homes, is we operate in the way that we were taught.

Bryan | Absolutely, yeah, one of the most frustrating things for me, so my wife Sylvie, she loves watching these all these these reality relationship shows on Netflix, you know, Love is Blind, and

Robin | I love them, too. I have to watch them even though they're really somewhat trashy. I know.

Bryan | It's hard for me to admit, but I kind of get into it too. You know, I wouldn't watch it except facility. But you know, but one of the things that's so maddening for me is that these the people in these shows, they don't get any help to get any wise counsel, they don't get any therapy.

Robin | They need Bryan Reeves right there to be like, Come on, guys. Actually, that would be this is a good show idea. I'm serious

Bryan | Right. So they're like, to your point, they're just kids often, you know, 20 to 30 years old, like your point, just doing what their parents either did or something in reaction to what their parents they have no idea what they're doing. They're set up. It's like they're set up to fail. And it's heartbreaking because, anyway, but that's just a microcosm of what we're doing at large in society. When we enter relationships, we're what I call winging it, using the winging it. 

Robin | Yep and most of us are winging it in a very bad way. So Bryan, I want to go into something you talked about in your book, and it's five signs, a man is connected to his heart. Oh, I really loved this part of the book. And there was a lot of I like there was so much about your book, right, honestly, I really, I loved it. So that when you said he is patient, 

Bryan | Yeah. 

Robin | And we already talked about this in the beginning, he laughs easily and authentically. Wow. That was, like you said, the earlier that to me was like, wow, like that? Why would that be one of the things and you explained it say you weren't taught, you were taught to keep your emotions intact. And like within this, these limits. And that means like that the no depths of sadness or depths of happiness and joy.Wow. 

Bryan | Yeah, and certainly don't You don't you don't laugh at someone else's. It's like, we don't laugh with people. We laugh at people when we're disconnected. 

Robin | Oh, boy. Number three, he is kind to the world. He's fully present. These last two, I want to talk a little bit more about he is passionately living his true purpose. 

Bryan | Yeah

Robin | So he's fully present this morning, I listened to your episode, if you do a lot of episodes with Tate. And of course, you do your podcast. Right. And so you were talking about presence. And how do you demonstrate and how important presence is. And how do we demonstrate presence in it just that in all relationships, right. And I love the fact that you said you say that our presence, remember that our presence is a gift. 

Bryan | Yeah, yeah yeah. Well, that there's a lot of layers to that.

Robin | I know. I know. There is. Yeah, that one is and this this kind of goes back to what we were talking about around if we're feeling disconnected, giving our presence to our partner. 

Bryan | Yeah

Robin | Just like you said, you're I'm here. I'm facing you. 

Bryan | Yeah

Robin | You are. I'm giving you my undivided attention. 

Bryan | Yeah

Robin | I don't I'm not on my phone. Even during the argument, or whatever's going on here. We can we can apply this so beautifully in it all over there are all of our relationships, right? 

Bryan | Absolutly. Definitely. In fact, your presence I actually, the feedback I got from a friend of mine, a female friend of mine, years ago, when I was single, just a woman that I would see occasionally at events in Los Angeles from time to time and, and she gave me this feedback after I don't know a couple of couple of years, maybe she she said, um, you know, Bryan, when I first met you for many months, I didn't trust you. I was like, oh, that's interesting. Why? I wasn't trying to do anything to her take advantage of her. I was like, I was like, oh, well, what? Tell me more about that. And she said, yeah, because every time I would sit with you we'd be somewhere be talking with you. You were you were you would look around so much. Like your attention just kept bouncing around all these places. And I just felt like it just like you weren't really with me. 

Robin | Yeah

Bryan | Oh, that was such good feedback. I was so shocked by that it. It was so helpful to hear. And that's something that's a lesson I've taken with me ever since. And that's just a friend. It wasn't even Wasn't she wasn't my girlfriend. Certainly not my wife wasn't just, but it's a lesson that I've taken with me that, you know, I think, again, speaking from the perspective of men, we tend to think, Okay, if it's not the normal things, like paying the bills, keeping us physically safe, not cheating, if it's not those and it must be major grand gestures that I have to do, you know, trips to Paris, or, I don't know, you know, 

Robin | No that's not what we need

Bryan | Dozens of roses every Tuesday, like, no, it can be as simple as just breathing deeply, turning your body putting on crossing your arms and paying attention, just giving her your attention. That can be profoundly healing. I'm not saying that's the the ultimate solution to everything, but it's a start. And it's something you can do in any moment. And just that, you know, my, I realize even when I'm with my wife, that's a lesson I take with me, if we go to a restaurant or something where there's a lot of TVs, it's very easy to want to just, oh, you know, there's a game on, let me look at that, you know, and keep having my attention. I am very well aware that that, my wife is going to feel my lack of presence. If I, you know, give into that temptation too much. It's so subtle. It's so simple. I'm not easy, let's say and it's easy that TV is blairing, it's trying to get my attention. But it's a practice I can lean into knowing that that's there. Whether it's a phone or children, children even can be really big distractions from from intimacy for a couple for many years. And learning just little skills like this can help couples stay connected even when things are chaotic and and there's so many demands at your attention, but we're talking about companies staying connected to heart. 

Robin | Yeah, 

Bryan | Right getting connected to heart. And I think that that lesson applies, it's not a big giant grand gesture. It's simple little things breathing. Staying focused, you know paying off offering attention paying it's like I'm it's like a currency attention is a currency. I'm offering this you know, that laughing one lesson that being kind to the world I want to be I want to say something about that to Robin, because I think there's there's this this misunderstanding, that being kind to the world means having no boundaries, accepting whatever is in front of me never being mad, never. not enforcing consequences for anything. Being the nice guy. I mean, this is fermented, it takes the shape of being Mr. Nice Guy, just going with the flow, creating no conflict. And that is not at all what I'm pointing at here, not at all, as I like to say it, a man connected to his heart, a man who is committed to love, can can still put someone in jail, can still end a relationship, can still it was still very connected to the warrior archetype. In his blueprint, or her blueprint for that matter, man or woman still has that warrior archetype that they can, that they can access whenever necessary whenever the world that they stand for is being threatened. Right, but we do so from a place of compassion, not anger and rage. There's this there's this great story of a samurai warrior who's whose King was assassinated. And so the samurai warrior sets out to catch the assassin and kill him. And he eventually tracks down the assassin and he's about to he pulls out his sword and he's about to cut off the assassins head and the assassin spits on him right before he does it. And the samurai stops and he puts his sword back in his sheath. And he walks away. Because in that moment, killing this assassin was no longer about honoring his King. Now it was about disgust and rage because he was spit on. Right so he walked away from that moment until he could come back and you know, kill the assassin. 

Robin | But for the right reasons

Bryan | But that matters. I think that's important. I think that's an interesting distinction.  I think that more men and women we need to sit with we, because it has, there's so many social repercussions. I mean, so anyway, yeah.

Robin | Well, I really, I really like the acknowledgement of all those things. So we have to we have to end because it's time's up. And I've loved I love our discussions, Bryan, this is this is, this is the juice that I'm like fueled on every day. So I really, I would love everybody to read your book. I listened to it and read it twice. So it was just I loved I loved your narrating of it, too, which was, it's awesome.

Bryan | Thank you. 

Robin | So I'm gonna, I'm going to end our, our chat with a blessing based on your words and your teachings, Bryan.

Bryan | Okay. 

Robin | May we see how our intimate relationships can act as transformational fires, surfacing all of our old wounds and fear based beliefs, so they may finally be witnessed and healed. May we be our own light.  May we create our best lives. By doing so we can attract others who are also living authentically in their light. And may we ultimately be devoted to the mastery of love.

Bryan | That's beautiful. I wrote that. 

Robin | I wrote the blessings but it's all of your teachings, Bryan

Bryan | Okay. Okay, good. Yes. Beautiful. Robin. Great. Don't let me take credit for what is not mine. Thank you. 

Robin | Thank you Bryan Reeves

Bryan | That's beautiful. Thank you, Robin. It's been a pleasure.

Robin | Thank you so much for listening. Visit realloveready.com to continue learning with us. Please rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the tools and guidance you need to form more loving relationships and create positive change in your life. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage you to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude to those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well. Many blessings and much love.