Matt Kahn - Healed by Love

This week on Let’s Talk Love, Robin is joined by world renowned author and spiritual teacher, Matt Kahn. Together, they talk about Matt’s documentary, Healed by Love. Matt shares his journey towards becoming a healer and the pivotal experiences that shaped his life’s path. Matt offers wisdom about manifestation, healing trauma and the power of forgiveness.  He explores the universal journey of healing, uncovering the important role we each play as healers for one another. Join us for a captivating exploration of love, healing, and self-discovery.

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Learn more with Matt Kahn:

Healed By Love - Free full length documentary by Matt Kahn: https://mattkahn.org/love

Healed By Love trailer: https://youtu.be/849U-mzb_Fc?si=AfFpi1TRMFktS6m3

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Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Today I had the most incredible conversation with Matt Kahn. Matt is a renowned spiritual teacher, highly acclaimed empath and best selling author of four books. He's known for his transformative insights into the journey of awakening. His teachings focus on love as the ultimate path to self realization, emphasizing the importance of emotional freedom and the power of self awareness. Matt is helping us come to a new awareness of how the universe truly works. We talked about the journey of healing we are all on and how to step into our roles as healers for each other. Matt explained how manifestation really works, why we forgive. We talked about abuse and trauma. And he also walked us through the law of attraction and how about really work. So today, it was just full of aha moments, new insights. This was an episode I hope you listen to more than once, I surely will. It's full of wisdom and understandings that I had not understood until now. And I hope you really enjoy. Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information, and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme. Now, Let's Talk Love. 

Hello everyone, our dear community, and welcome to Let's Talk Love. I am just so excited and honored to welcome our guest, Matt Kahn. I wish we had like you know a clapping audience in the back. But I know everybody's listening is clapping and being so excited to listen to this too.

Matt Kahn | Such an honor. Thank you for that. That that healthy applause break.

Robin Ducharme | Oh my gosh, Matt, I have been following and learning from you for years and years. And this is really a dream come true. I mean, I I'm just so blessed and and grateful for this time with that with you. So tell everybody. I know, our listeners know, I'm sure a lot of our listeners know you already and have been following and learning from you. But for those that don't know you Matt. I know you've been a spiritual teacher leader for Is it true? Like more that definitely more than 10 years? How long now? 

Matt Kahn | Oh it's been at 18 years.

Robin Ducharme | Okay. Okay, I know that okay, I was gonna say 18. But then I thought is this but your spiritual journey started when you were much younger? You say that you were having spontaneous knowings from a very young age. So you so I, we're going to talk about your documentary. Healed by Love today. And your books, I've read all four of your books, listen to all four of your books, because I love listening to you. Like I've got, you know, there's something about reading a book, but when you're listening, it's another level because it's Matt Kahn Right. There's a lot of healing that goes on when you're when you're speaking. I know that's true. Tell us about how you ended up becoming a spiritual teacher. And that journey. I know it's a big it's a long journey, but I just would love to hear a little synopsis.

Matt | Yeah, it's such a funny journey for me. Because, you know, when I was a kid, this was never anything I thought I would do, because I didn't know it existed. And I remember, you know, my first experience I had not about experience when I was about eight, and I met Jesus and didn't know who he was. I was raised Jewish. And so apparently, some people that I told him my life about and reacted, broke some rule or something. But I met Jesus didn't know who he was. But it was a moment of knowing a level of love and connection beyond anything I'd ever experienced, even with my family, and it really kind of acted as this activation moment. And then from that experience, I began having these spontaneous knowings where I would just know things without knowing why. But it would seem more true than anything I could perceive in the world around me and, you know, juxtaposed to these big experiences, and I think a lot of viewers will probably resonate with this I was having this very confusing experience of tuning into the emotions of other people and interpreting their feelings as maybe their opinion of me so if they were sad, I thought I made them sad. And if they were upset with their family, I thought they were upset with me. So I spent most of my life I'm trying to cheer everyone up. Being everyone's counselor from the earliest age, I was my parents counselor since I was 11. And thinking that unless people are happy, they're upset with me. And so I lived this very emotionally codependent life, not realizing I was an empath. And then I could psychically tune into the emotions of other people. And I really just didn't know where my emotions began, and theirs ended. And so as I went through a series of greater awakenings, I'd say in my early 20s, where the universe helped me heal a back injury after a year of being off work in debilitating pain, I began to put all the pieces together through these encounters I would have with Ascended Masters and Archangels, who really educated me on the, you know, laws of the universe. And I learned everything from them. And it's how I opened up my ability to channel which I didn't know that I could do and I was channeling from the Akashic records. And I didn't even know what that was. And I'm talking to all these different guides, and every day I'm meeting a different guide, who's talking to me in like, old biblical speak, and I'm talking to them like Matt Kahn. So they, you know, Melchizedek, my main guide, who is the main guy that I work with, I have so many guys I work with, but they all speak through him. And I mainly work with him. And he was Jesus's teacher. And he would, you know, come to me and say, you know, my son, by tomorrow's time here draw biblical and intense and off the wizard, and I'm like, talking to him, like, look, look, I think this is all very cool. And I love having these abilities. And I always really wanted to know more about the universe, because that was really my deepest draw was when I discovered this thing called God, like, Where is God? What is God? But then I think there was a part of me that thought, this was what I've always wanted. And how do I know that my mind is not manufacturing this, and I was, my biggest concern was that I have such respect for people's healing people's wounds, and the trust that we were given to do this kind of work. It wasn't just like, oh, I'm a healer, I'm gonna put my hands on people and people are going to be healed. Like, it actually really gave great positivey, because I thought, well, this is the work I'm gonna do, I want to train and I want to, I want to, you know, I'm going to handle people's trust. And I'm going to be given the ability to work with people through delicate things. And so I really put my guides through the paces, and I put myself through the paces, because I didn't take this work lightly. And I think that, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. It's a very famous quote. And I think that for me, I trained hard, because I was so worried that like, Well, how do I know I'm really doing this? How do I know? I'm really talking with pastors like what if I'm just fooling myself. And so I went through this process of training for many years. And then at a certain point, I just, I had the realization of how deeply people suffer in the world. And I just felt like I need to start stepping forward and offering what I do. And I, you know, started offering my work at a spiritual bookstore. And then someone asked me if I could do a reading, and I didn't know what that even meant. And I sat down with someone, and it just happened. And then all of a sudden, I have a full time career working with people full time doing this. And I was a personal trainer and my family or like, what just happened? Well, I don't know either. I'm just kind of rolling with it. And I started speaking in very small venues, and just one thing led to another. And I don't know how, at the time, I didn't know how I was doing what I was doing. But I just knew to trust my instincts, right and didn't know how I hit the ball. When I stepped up to the plate I used to do every time I did, I swung, and things happen. And so for the first 10 years, I just flew by the seat of my pants, allowing myself to share what came through me and behind the scenes petrified because I don't know why how I'm doing what I'm doing. I just know how to do it when I'm in that moment. And as I kept doing it, I would watch myself outside of myself. And I learned how I do what I do by watching myself and and then in dialogues with people and sessions and offering teachings, I would learn about these other paths that I hadn't studied, because I only knew what I was taught. And it seemed very different from the perspectives of what was out there. So I had to piece this whole thing together over a series of many years and realizing that I have a perspective that's a little different, and offering my teachings as a transmission with the very love that I felt from that experience when I was eight when I met Jesus, and really knowing that not just the information that I'm taught from my guides is important, but the feeling of love that they always embody and the message of love that every message comes from. And so when I teach and I'm transmitting, and I'm channeling energy that people feel in my frequency, it's not just what I'm saying. It's what you feel in your body as you're receiving these words, because the most important thing is that I want to make sure people are feeling the vibration of the universe as I feel in my connection every day. Because the point of all of this is really to get us all to remember that we are one with source that we are loving physical form, it's the love that we are, as it awakens, that's really here to transform our planet, no matter the state it's in. And so, I know I said a lot of words, but it's been quite a journey. And I feel like after all these years, in some way, I feel like I'm really just getting started. But it's, it's been quite a blessing.

Robin | I hear what you're saying Matt it's like, in the last, I'm gonna say 6,7,8 months, I've been really diving into so much more of your work. And it's getting, you know, I've got the all access pass to the back of you know, all of it, which is like, yay. But you do say don't like don't binge. This is not like a Netflix series people. You're like, one at a time, like, okay, I was binging for a bit, I have to admit, it gives me a little bit too much, right. If you're, you're because these are, these are such important. knowings, lessons and rememberings. And you have to digest and you have to take time to embody. 

Matt | Right, right

Robin | Like this morning, I'm listening to your book again. Because I've gotten I've gotten all the books on my library, and I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna press are just gonna listen to like the first couple chapters just to get myself primed for speaking, Matt. And it was about ego and soul. And just to preface, what I wanted to ask is the fact that you are teaching, like you said, Matt, just earlier, you said that your teachings are different, they can be looked at as different than what we as I would say that I'm a very spiritual person. And I've been on my spiritual growth path, since I'm going to say, since I was 15, I was trying to think when was it when I read Conversations with God, because I was raised Catholic. And then I read, you know, Conversations with God. And that just flipped everything I was learning as from a little girl in church, off the chart, right? It really, really did. It was taking all the stuff and going like, that's not the way I'm like, What the heck. So my best friend, and I would skip school grade 10 and we'd go smoke cigarettes and drink coffee and talk about God for like two periods. Felt like a badass, but really what we're doing the bad just talking about God. 

Matt | Love it. 

Robin | But I think even being on this spiritual journey for that long, like, that's 31 years. 

Matt | Yeah.

Robin | There's a lot of things that I'm learning from you that are flipping the learnings on their head again. 

Matt | Yeah. 

Robin | And you say that we're in a paradigm like we're in it's a paradigm shift. Is that what is would that be a real way to say it?

Matt | 100%. And I would say that because, you know, it's one thing for spiritual people, I say this, you know, as a lovingly termo spirit, the spiritual beings of the world, which has so many different, like, love, like layers and levels and nuances. But as spiritual beings, we often think, okay, we're waiting for the world to wake up. When's the world gonna wake up? When is the world gonna join us this kind of thing. And that's a wonderful idea. But I think that it's also important to realize that the spiritual beings who have come this far are actually in their own awakening. And part of what's changing is that an order for healing, transformation, as you know, ascension, to go global and go to mass consciousness, it can't be occupied in a spiritual subculture anymore. 

Robin | No.

Matt | And I think what's happening, and I see this all the time, I mean, I'm getting invitations to bring my work to corporate America, which I think is amazing. 

Robin | Yes.

Matt | But I think what's happening is that spirituality at its highest level, is in an introduction into a higher level spirituality that I call reality, 

Robin | Reality. 

Matt | That is taking you out of reality, and not helping you learn how to cope with reality. I think we have a very different kind of thing going on. And so I think there's been a lot of fads in the spiritual. There's been, you know, manifestation, law of attraction, all these things.

Robin | These are things that I want to talk about today though, Matt is like flipping all this stuff on its head.

Matt | Absolutely because of that, I mean, if there is some validity to it, I mean, I'm manifesting credible, I can tell some incredible stories, as does my wife. But when you understand the laws of the universe, versus some of the superstitious ways in which it's interpreted, because I think over time, what we all can see is that, when you know, they're they're having an understanding is great, right, the trees part, you see the forest through the trees, it's wonderful to have clarity. But sometimes we try to understand things in a way that oversimplifies the complexities of life. And when you oversimplify things, you turn things into a superstition, which says, my day is going to be good, as long as my thoughts are okay, or I'm gonna micromanage my emotions to make sure this and while there's a certain level of awareness, you have over different with different parts of yourself. This idea that you have to constantly purified micromanage and hover over yourself like you, you wouldn't want a child to experience. It's, it's just a way in which we have come into a spiritual level of awareness, we've created a new spiritual ego. And it's really just the time for us to step out of our spiritual ego, and to really build a relationship with reality. And one thing I can say about the reason why my teachings are so different, is because from the moment of my first experience, my experience was with source, what you want to call God, you can call it consciousness and call it whatever you want. And every day of my life, what I'm in communion with is source energy. And I think some of the things that get under emphasized in the spiritual path is knowing and praising and celebrating the existence of source. And it gets really easy to get into using spirituality to problem solve, how can I use it to get my way? How can I to judge myself as to what I'm like, I'm hurting, let me spiritually now figure out what I'm doing wrong in my path. And let me stack that on top of it. And really, at the end of the day, what is this path about exploring and discovering a source of the unity, knowing it in yourself and building a relationship with it. So if our spiritual path is and kind of moving us in that direction, it's just more fantasy in the name of spirituality. And that takes us out of reality. And so my intention is to bring us into reality. And in the most loving way.

Robin | Love that.

Matt | Thank you. 

Robin | So Matt, when did you create your documentary?

Matt | A couple of years ago. 

Robin | Okay. So in the documentary, there's four individuals that you are doing healings with private private healings with? Yeah. And I was when I was rewatching. It again, I think they're the paradigm, you're what you're doing is you're, you're helping these individuals, really, it's a belief, it's a shift in beliefs, right? And shedding, shedding old old paradigms? Really? 

Matt | That's right.

Robin | And in doing that, like an example would be with the mother, who would Coral she has six kids, right? And she was having these recurring day had nightmares about their well being. And it was like debilitating. 

Matt | Right.

Robin | And she talks about how and I think this is a core belief that, like a lot of us on this spiritual path, have or had, is the fact that you're just trying to get rid of these negative thoughts. Right. Like, any negative thoughts, any thoughts of like, beyond positive are like, if you can control your thoughts you can create control your reality. Right. 

Matt | Right.

Robin | And so she what she said, which I think so many of us can resonate with, she said, she did not want to share with her husband, what was going on in her mind and on these, these very terrifying thoughts about her children being hurt for the fear of manifesting these things coming true. 

Matt | Right.

Robin | So this okay, there's obviously the positive manifestation where we want to manifest by with all these visioning and the desires and and then there's the course the negative, manifesting, we don't want, like we want to change our thoughts to change our reality. 

Matt | Sure. 

Robin | Okay. So can you please to describe to us how a manifestation really works, Matt?

Matt | Well, I think part of the the thing that is important to state is that you're not always manifesting when things go the way you want them to go. Like you're always in the state of manifestation. We're always in what's called a creation cycle, as my wife would put it, we're always in a creation cycle. And I think that It comes down to a very oversimplified belief. And if I can co create something magnificent in my life, I must be also the reason why not so magnificent things happen in my life. And I think that it really falls under the category of blaming the experiencer. Right. Like it's such a trauma response, if someone is abused by someone, that they're going to have even a fleeting thought that says, What did I do to create this? How did I bring this upon myself? Am I to blame, and this wouldn't have happened if I wasn't if I if I was more perfect than I am right now, which is part of the justification we go through when we're traumtised. So I believe has, the way it was taught fits with the way we over simplify trauma. And we tend to blame ourselves, we think, what am I doing to constantly bring this into my life. Now the way I like to look at the way I was showing it, the way I work with it, that the universe is always manifesting through you. And that you are manifesting experiences that you could perceive as either good or bad based on how you know your core beliefs and how you interpret life. But that everything is happening to help you on a soul level, turn weaknesses into strengths and imbalances and into greater stability. And so there's nothing really that we attract that is in, there's no pain that you attract, it's in the way of pleasure, meaning any pleasure in your life up ahead, is kind of frozen in time, waiting for you to graduate through different stages. And immediately when you're ready, it animates it comes to life. So there's an idea that the pain I'm in is in the way of pleasure, or if I spend too much time taking my test in homeroom, I'm missing out on recess time with my friends. And I think really, we have to come into a deeper understanding and deeper surrender, that everything that I'm manifesting is actually helping to sharpen skill sets. And to prepare me for the future I'm stepping into that trying to micromanage and control reality is really just how the ego likes to manifest. And it's a very big leap for people to say when great things happen. They say, I guess I manifested it. And then if bad things happen, they say, well, why did I manifest it? And so I think that the whole purpose of why this conversation of manifestation happened and the movie came out. And it's very successful. And I appreciate that it happened because the seed that was needed to be planted was that we are co creators. We are co creators, with source, not co creators, when we're trying to control it all, hold the weight of the world on our shoulders, trying to micromanage our mind, trying to control our feelings. So it's really about how can I enter into a relationship of co creation, and the relationship of co creation is source, please show me why everything in my life is the way it is. Show me what I meant to learn from it. Not that I'm going to learn fast, so I can get the hell away from it. But what am I meant to learn? What skills am I building? Right now when you start to see, oh, wow, I have someone in my life that's really difficult for me to communicate with. And I tend to be someone who avoids communication. So what's the likelihood that I am manifesting the situation to get better at conscious communication, and so that, that becomes a clear way to understand manifestation. And there are beautiful things that we're all manifesting, that are beautiful things that we're all co creating. But the idea that you have to know what it is, and that you can't call it in before you know your desire, like the universe create, we are the universe and the universe created us. Some of us experience ourselves as the universe, some of us experience ourselves as one with the universe. But what created us even if it's the I Am that doesn't have an ego, there's no one that knows you better than the universe. The universe knows what you want before you want it. And what happens is the universe is just not going to bring you things that will distract you from the growth of your soul's expansion. So if you want something and it's not showing up, it doesn't mean you can't have it. It means you are psychically tuning into something you're meant to have had probably the moment you're not meant to have it. Because egos not good with time. The ego knows what you're going to manifest at exactly the moment you're not meant to have it. And that's when you can turn on yourself and say, Why don't I have it? What's wrong with me? I know it's my thoughts, those dastardly thoughts. And while there this is has been the central theme of a lot of teachings, right? The central theme of a lot of things is, here's the problem. And now let's find what's wrong with you. Oh, it's my thoughts. Oh, it's my emotions. Oh, it's my cellular body. Now, these are all things that are being healed. Yes, when you awaken, your mind does go silent. Yes, your emotions do clear out, and you do have access to different feelings. You also don't have an avoidant relationship with negative feelings. So there's that one. And all these things do happen. But I think the way that people have gone about it, as they've decompartmentalize, the totality of the journey, and they're trying to micromanage themselves and say, How can I control my mind, fix my emotions, purify my beliefs, and hack my way through this universe? And what happens if you're able to do that, I think you can do that, is it makes you more intolerant to compassion. Because if you see someone suffering, you're gonna go, I know what you need, you need to change your thoughts, you need to change your emotions. And that's not what someone needs to hear what they need to hear, as I'm here with you, I want to listen to your experience. So not to assume that even as an empath, I know what it's like to walk in your shoes. And I want to let it be safe for you to share your experience with someone outside of you. And for you didn't know that your loved fat right there is more spiritual than any of this other stuff. And when when our journey becomes exploring the universe, exploring our power, exploring co creation, I mean, you can manifest I mean, all this stuff is very real. My point of view and my experience of the universe is it's all real. It's just the way people have been taught to go about it keeps them chasing it, versus experiencing it, and it's no one's fault. It's just trying to create a bridge to a different reality through materials collected from an old paradigm. And so we just have to build a new bridge. That's all.

Robin | Yes build a new bridge. So Matt, kay, something in our community. It's, it's okay, first of all, there's the this is great, because the new the new understanding is around is healing. Okay. And, and now, which I, which I love is the understanding and remembrance that you do not need to be fully healed, to, to be in a beautiful, healthy relationship. We're on a journey, we're on a journey of healing. But I think that that is the other, like, major issue is that we are so fixated on our healing, it's like, okay, when I heal, I gotta heal this, I gotta heal that, oh, this childhood wound, I gotta like, you're just you're looking and you're, you're just excavating every single thing that you need to heal, in order to be this, the best version of yourself and all these things, but like, it's just this preoccupation. And it's, it's an obsession with healing. I mean, really, it is,

Matt | If you're in prison, you're in prison and don't know when your parole date is. And let's say it's set for a date, you haven't been told what you your time until that parole date, you may mentally believe is making the parole date come faster. So let's say you decide and tell yourself until the parole date comes, I'm going to change how I breathe. And I'm going to make my parole date come faster. Now, let's say that parole date comes out on the exact date it was meant to, but you didn't know it when it was. And then when it does, you go, I guess the breathing thing worked out. And so really a lot of what people are doing, it's not like healing work is unnecessary. It's just we have to dial in the balance between self responsibility, and trying to have some sort of control. You we are participants in our healing journey, we are navigating a healing journey. But the idea that you have to be totally whole and complete before you can manifest things is really just a belief in reward and punishment. And of course, it's easy for people to say, my rewards will come once the punishment has been served, or once I've repented enough for my sins or if that's a religious interpretation. So people feel punished by their healing journey. So then they think the rewards can't come until they've completed it. That's a belief system. That's an old paradigm. The truth is, why are we on a healing journey? We're on a healing journey, because of the wounds we've gathered from our families of origin. Why did we do that? We did it because our families have origin gave us an experience of the world, we came to transform our families of origin as a microcosm, of the world. And as we heal the wounds we experienced in childhood, and an adolescence, it is actually initiating us to be healers in physical form, whether you're a healer in corporate America, whether you're a healer and you're doing Reiki at a spa, or whatever you're going to do. Healer means one who has successfully gone through the healing process, if their light has been activated, and so whatever role they play, they're going to spread the light to awaken more beings in the world. So we so the, the, how do I say this, the setup for your life purpose was the experience you had in your family, the themes you endured, that are here to be healed, are a part of the themes that you're helping to clear out of the collective. So if I was here, and part of my mission was to clear sexual trauma out of the collective for those who are not ready to heal it in themselves, I would have gone through a sexual trauma that put me on a certain path. As we go through an awakening journey, a healing journey. We are healing the wounds that we survived in the past, and it's initiating us, it's activating us to remembering that we are the light that heals and transforms we are consciousness. And so the whole purpose of going through a healing journey is to come out the other side healed, and ready to shine your light in whatever role or profession you play, whether you're a stay at home mom, whether you're a musician, whether you're a corporate America employee, or whatever you are. And so the whole purpose of this is that people who are healing are remembering that they have the power to heal themselves, because they are healers. And what my wife and I both alike are interested in doing is we guide people through a healing journey from the perspective that they are a healer going through the initiation stage of being a healer, which is a very different experience of reuniting with the light of source. And going through that whole experience versus how can I control and perfect myself so that my life can get better. And so we look at it more of a rite of passage, and we look at it more of the healing journey is a cocoon of conditioning. It's where the caterpillar of ego dissolves, and it's where the butterfly of rebirth emerges. And as we as the butterfly are reborn, we then bring to the planet, the new higher consciousness that is helping to move the world in a more in a more conscious, mindful, heart centered way of alignment. Some of us are doing it through crowdfunding, some of us are doing it through, you know, community outreach, some of us are doing, and some of us are actually doing it energetically. And you know, some of us play a lot of different roles. But inevitably, your evolution, your ability to heal, is helping you remember that you yourself, are a healer. And what's amazing is that I've experienced a lot of healers, who are not fully healed, who won't fully heal, until they first step into their mission, where those people have thought I can't step into my mission until I'm healed first. But the truth is, is two thirds or three fourths of the way healed, but stepping into your mission, not fully completely healed is and allowing yourself to say, look, if there's even a third of me open, let me be a doorway to let the light of source through. That's actually how you go the other side of the journey. And so we have to kind of wake up out of spiritual perfectionism and not wait for us to be perfect whole and complete, before we serve. It's our ability to serve and whatever state we're in, and actually takes us further into remembering the wholeness that we've always embodied. 

Robin | Oh my goodness, Matt. There's thank goodness there is going to transcripts in this I'm telling ya. There's just so much in that what you just said around our family of origin was a microcosm for the healing that we will help transform for each other. Holy crap that is that is beautiful. Absolutely amazing. I've never heard that one Matt. That's a good one. No, it's amazing. It's amazing. It absolutely is amazing. Because when when you watch the documentary when people watch Healed by Love, the the people that you that were so brave and courageous and just beautiful that that were on and achieved healing with you. Their stories were just amazing. Like for instance, Leah, like you said she was a six when she was six, she was sexually abused. 

Matt | Yes. 

Robin | And one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was is forgiveness. 

Matt | Yeah.

Robin | And something that you can't first of all abuse, okay? Because this is something that there's so much shame, and blame and how like, as human beings, when we do go through trauma, something like that I can only imagine and what Leah did express is that she did have shame. And she was she was, you know, her, she was unable to speak about it, because her family wasn't willing to, after she told them, so it's just like a little girl, you just kind of clam up right. And then you're that's a learned something you learned to do to protect yourself. Something you said, which I wrote down as a quote, Matt was you said, those who abuse others are avoiding the pain of their wounds, by hiding it in the bodies of those who they attack.

Matt | That's right. 

Robin | I have never when I I mean, I had to write it down. Because I'm like, how. I you know, you that's just such a big thing to wrap your head around, like, can you explain that, Matt? And then also the forgiveness piece on how, you know, Leah was able, like, I don't I don't know if that's true or not. But I mean, it's like, it's like, he was occupying space in her. 

Matt | Yeah. Well. So we can tie both together in one answer. So the misunderstanding is that when people say I forgive you, they often interpret it to mean it's okay, that that happened. That's never with the phrase means. 

Robin | No.

Matt | So if I define it as trauma is how people hide from their own unprocessed pain by hiding in the bodies of others. So when someone abuses another person, they leave their imprint in the scars of that person's body as a way of avoiding what they don't want to look at in themselves. Now, when we are ready to forgive, and when I work with people on forgiveness, the first step is the first step of forgiveness is having a right not to forget.

Robin | Yes.

Matt | Because you have to, a voice to the part of yourself that says I won't forgive, Hell, no, that wasn't right. And of course, it wasn't right. But what is forgiveness really forgiveness as a way of saying, if I forgive someone, that means I like forgiving, I'm giving someone an opportunity to know that I am no longer hiding their pain in my body. That's the first step. So when we forgive you are evicting someone's energy and pain out of the storage of your cells, you will not hide from yourself in me. And I fogive you, I'm calling on the universe, to put you on a fast track to learn how to face your wounds and no longer avoid, so you will no longer hide your pain in anyone else's body. So if I don't want someone hiding their pain in my body, I don't want them hiding it in another victim and I want I'm ready for to say to the universe, I want this person to be healed and redeemed. So they will never hurt another person, they will come into consciousness and face themselves. I do that by saying I forgive, so it's really actually a badass energy. It's not. It's okay. It happened and you know what it isn't? This isn't this spiritual bullshit that says, I must have created this in heaven before I must have. I guess I know,

Robin | You talk about you talk about that. Matt, you say that like nobody, no souls came to this earth to be abused. That's BS. Like, when I heard that it was like absolutely true. There's no bloody way that a soul is going to say when I go down to earth, I want to be hurt in this way, this way, this way? Well, right. You don't like you're not saying I just want to be abused, like no way. 

Matt | And the idea that before I came here, I made this decision because we all are evolving our self awareness, so of course, we're going to interpret it from self awareness. But then the idea that a soul chooses to come down and play this role, this the person is playing the role, but they themselves are not in a willful conscious state because in order to abuse another person, you have to be in a state of denial, and you have to be separate from source to a certain degree. That's why a lot of people that abuse other people, actually, in order to hide from the fact that they're the villain in the in the experience, they actually think they're the hero, that's that's what delusion does put you into a mindset. If you and if you talk to people who have done some horrendous things, they will blame, they will deflect. And they themselves have convinced themselves that they are the hero, I heard a voice of God talk to me. And I am I cannot be blamed for this. That's a denial and denial hides its pain in other people's bodies. So in order for us to heal, we say you will no longer hide your pain in my body. And if I know how deeply I was traumatized, I don't want anyone else to be the next victim. So may, may, all of the energy I've carried in you be returned to you as light for your healing, may you have an inability to store your energy in someone else's body. And may I call him the light of the universe that says you take this person, you put them to the front of the line, and you put them through their own redemption, rebirth, so that they can no longer deny their pain and harm another person again, please make them the front of the line, please rebirth them in their original form, in the name of bringing more peace to the planet. That's what forgiveness is.

Robin | Wow, Matt. I just wanted, like, I feel like I want to cry. It's it's profound. And like, and that's just so beautiful. It really is. So can we can we talk about the law of attraction, and how there's this other really miss there's a huge misconception around attracting bad people, or attracting really okay, like really unhealthy relationships. It's like, oh, I did that, like, you know, and I don't want to do it again. So how do I prevent it? Right? Like this is this is a lot of talk in our community in Real Love Ready. I mean, we're surrounded by therapists and psychologists and people that this that are here to help us hopefully, work out or avoid we've gone through in bad relationships and, and have healthy ones. But I think there is this misconception around attracting like a narcissistic, abusive person. For instance, I did that it was my law of attraction. I was broken. So I attracted that.

Matt | I would see your subconscious ultimately does that. But there's a reason for it. Like, okay, so for example, let's say you are still wounded. And you grew up in a family where the way you found safety was in managing people's experiences and expectations. For example, in my family, I learned very young to be a shapeshifter, meaning what version of me balances out my mom's emotional trigger. If my mom was in a good mood, she's fine. But my mom got triggered, she became a monster. So like when I was young, I'd play Nintendo, and by the, by the way, her key change jangled as she walked in the door, I knew the mood she was in. And then the volume of her voice now my mom, God bless my mom's soul. My mom always speaked at level 20. So she'd squeak,

Robin | My mom, my mom was like that, I can be like that to

Matt | Capital caps. The whole thing was, my mom just screamed like, if she needed to ask you a question. She needed to wait till she was across the house to scream something to you. And it put little seeds in my nervous system. So okay, so I learned how to manage my family because I said, when I'm around my family, being interrogated, for example, I learned to be a good little boy, to minimize interrogations because if I got in trouble, I'm interrogated. And that means I am going to be yelled at for an at least an hour and ripped apart and then built back up. And it's it was a horrific experience for me. So I learned, who do I have to be at school? In every experience, right? If I'm around my family, I'm the good little boy, Mom, Dad, are you watching? Are you? Are you taking note? Right, score this on the scorecard. And so I learn how to manage people. And so what would happen then, is that I would attract people that I needed to manage, I would attract people who had personality structures that would communicate in a way where I never knew where I stood. Because my wound was, I need to manage people to know where I stand. And if that's an active pattern in me, I need to attract people who aren't good at letting me know where I stand. They're not going to let me off the hook of my pattern. They're just going to help me keep it going. So when we look at the law of attraction, we're attracting experiences that keep patterns active. So for example, there are a lot of people in your community I would guess as long as as well as my community are very intuitive. They go on at first date. The person walks in and they go, hell no. That's their intuition, actually. And then they go, let's be nice. Don't be judged.

Robin | It's like you have to flip the script because you're not being loving enough. It's like this.

Matt | You're not being loving now what would Matt Kahn thin?  Matt Kahn would agree with you and say, Get the hell out of here, right. That's what I would say. And people go, no, that's not loving, because the ego has to perform love. So the ego wants to show love for the people of the safest to love. And so then you give someone a chance, I don't think I'm feeling anything close to romance. So what is your ego say, let's give it a shot. Let's keep going. Like if you went to a store, and if you're looking for a shirt, and the store sold, you are sold everything but shirts, you wouldn't go, well, let's give it a shot. And it's not what you're looking for. And so people don't know how to trust their intuition.

Robin | They are ignoring red flags, which are like, clear and as day

 Matt | Thinking it's judgment, and wanting to give someone a chance, we want to confuse people's potential with their reality. Because here's the thing, we're already light beings. So we're trying to find other people, our frequency, but what we don't know is you might be tuning into the light in another person, that they're not meant to be for five more lifetimes. So then you're so then you're beat because we as empaths are reflecting people's future. Other people, whether they're narcissists, or more often they're self centered, are reflecting our unhealed are afflicting our past, not even our unhealed past, but just our past. So we are people's potential. And so we confuse their potential with reality. And then we get relationships, we get to manage people and figure out how can I make them into a project and make them more of how I want them to be, because we need things to manage, because we don't know how to exist in relationships, where we know where we stand, because our history is I don't know where I stand. I don't know, when my parents can go from being loving to a monster, I don't know when it's gonna go from, I'm not bothered to I'm not abused. And so what we attract is a person that keeps us in the same pattern that we played out from our traumas, or neglects, or from our losses. If you have unprocessed losses in you, you're going to love someone, they're going to leave you or they're going to be avoidant, or they're going to ghost you to bring you back to that grief that hasn't been healed. So there is something to attraction. But the idea of I'm going to change it so I don't attract it again, the most unpopular, truthful answer is you're going to attract it until you out grow the wound. And so the wound is usually one of the few things it's, I'm afraid to trust my intuition, because I think it's a judgment, I confuse people's potential with who they are in reality. And I attract people where I don't know where I stand because I confuse relating to people with managing their experiences. And so when we heal the root of codependency, that's when you start to create space for different people to enter your life, people that will communicate their needs, and then you learn how to communicate where you only need to be fully present with someone when they have reached out for help. I mean, if you feel someone in a place of need, you go, hey, are you in a place of need, I'm feeling stuff and I don't know if I'm feeling myself or you. And you can ask but people that are healthy, will ask for your help when they need it. And a healthy relationship is I can assume that we're good. Unless I know we're not versus this. Are we good? Are you sure we're good? You said we're good. But then I saw your eye twitch a little bit. I pulled a card the other day and I'm not quite sure. I was stuff where and then we approach the spiritual path that way we approach our healing journey that way we turn on ourselves. Are you okay? Are you sure you're okay? How about now what about now, if we just relax into the nature of surrender, if we relax into I'm not going to fast track this, it's going to be what's it's going to be until it's meant to be different. And if I take it nice and slowly, I'm gonna see the truth, which is I accept I'm intuitive, and I don't know how to trust it. And in the very beginning all your intuitions feel like judgments, because your egos trying to control it, I don't know how to relate to people without managing them. I don't know how to do to separate someone's potential from the reality and then you just start to slowly learn like, okay, let me listen to their words, let me watch their actions. Are they matching up? Are they not matching up? 

Robin | Right. 

Matt | What if I notice someone is the best thing for both of us? What if I said no thank you to someone for a second date. It puts them in the direction of being around people that they need more than me. And it opens up space for me to attract a better person I can connect with. So we can't assume saying no is a form of rejection. You can't control people's feelings. And if a no, isn't as comfortable to say, as a yes, it's why we're attracting things that aren't what we really want. Because when you're in a true place of worthiness, saying no can be just as thoughtful as a yes, someone's feelings are hurt. We say I honor how you feel, and may you be blessed. And we don't have to take responsibility for people's experiences because we try to make sure that everyone's okay with our choices because the outside world represents the family of our origin, where if someone in my family was not okay with Matt Kahn's decision, like, if I'm,, I'm a young, and I'm telling my parents, I'm going to do this and that and they don't agree with me. I got chewed out, I got yelled at, I got interrogated, I got punished for sharing my inspiration with people who needed to approve of my choices. Because I lived under their roof. I was their prisoner. I had a great relationship with my family. But it was very obvious to me, like quick story. When I was 13 years old, my parents sat me down and they said, Matthew, how would you like to have a very big party for your 13th birthday? And I said, well, what's the catch? Because I know my family. They said, well, you're gonna have something called a bar mitzvah, and you're gonna learn the Hebrew, this whole thing. And, and they said, you're gonna be honored as a man in the religion. And I looked at my parents, and I said, you know, I don't mean this against myself, but I don't feel much like a man right now. To be honest, I'm not a man like that.

Robin | I'm 13 and I'm not up for this. Yeah.

Matt | Thanks for your little invitation. But no, thank you. I was much more interested in being lazy and playing Nintendo. And then my mom, she said, let me put you this way. You're going to be bar mitzvahed. And I went, oh, oh, I see what this is. I'm going to be bar mitzvahed and, and you asking me, I was hoping I would agree. And when I didn't, then you played the you live under our roof, you eat our food. And this is how you're going to be, oh, I'm, and how many of us have gone through and I say this. I've healed so much with my family. But like, there's so many that we are traumatized and need the outside world, like you need a first date to agree that they don't want to have a second date with you so you don't walk away feeling guilty. So this is the codependence issue.

Robin | Oh yes of  wow Matt.

Matt | Again, we do attract things, but it's not the way people think we attract things to ultimately bring to our awareness. The games we play on a subconscious level, which we call secondary game, that I attract someone in my life, who does it who gives me infrequent attention, so that I can keep wondering where I stand. And then when you're not in a relationship, you wonder where you stand with the universe? Am I aligned with the universe? Does the universe like me? Am I pleasing the universe, and we're still playing it out on our spiritual path. And it's all here to wake us up out of our ego games. And as you wake up from your ego games, it's more of a journey of being one with spirit than about fixing yourself.

Robin | Oh my gosh, being one with spirit rather than fixing yourself. Oh my gosh Matt. Matt Kahn I just love you so much. I thank you so much. This was like I said, like, thank goodness, there's transcript because I gotta read through it and watch it over and over again. So full of gems, you're the best. Oh, thank you, Matt. So tell us about you, we've got a couple minutes. I just want to hear what else is going on. Are you getting married in like 12 days. Yeah!

Matt | I and my beloved Joy are getting  am married. It will be the exact

Robin | Oh no, sorry. 19 days what was I talking about? Yeah.

Matt | I have some time well you're saying March 10 is my birthday. And then the 17th we're getting married, which is the year to the date we met, we met. And people think St. Patricks Day, we met at actually a conference, we were speaking at, like, I don't want people to think we were, we met at some pub

Robin | Drinking green beer, come on, Matt Kahn.

Matt | These spiritual leaders having shots of Irish whiskey, no, we met at a talk. And we both met and felt instantly in love. And so we're getting married on the year of the date we met. And, you know, we're starting to bring our teachings together, we're both gonna have separate offerings, but we're also bringing stuff together. And what we're just finding, you know, as, as partners, as husband and wife and as colleagues in the field, is just how our work how everything just perfectly fits together. I mean, she and I are both experiencing the greatest love we've ever known. And it's, it's passionate and it's comfortable the same time and she has two children so now I'm about to be a step father and step grandfather, which I don't even know what that is, but like I do you know what I mean, like I don't feel like a step grandfather like I don't know it's very funny thing, so and I've never been a parent and I've stepped into that role and I'm we're both of us having a great time living together and you know, everything in life we do together is so incredible. And it's and again one of the things we want to teach people is about divine partnership and connection so

Robin | So excited. Okay, great. Well, whenever when that when you're doing this, we have to have you back on Real Love Ready on the podcast, like to speak with our community. I've just I'm so very happy for you both. And in your journey forward and just everything you're doing Matt you're making a profound and beautiful impact in the world. So thank you for having me, I'm going to close with a blessing. Based on on your, your words and your teachings. May we know that when we heal ourselves, we heal others. May we accept that our spiritual journey is not a matter of dissecting ourselves under a spiritual microscope, but allowing our soul's highest innate qualities to shine through more consistently and deliberately, may we respect the divinity and others. We do not have to be afraid of what others may take from us or withhold from our hearts. And may we remember, there is a reason we are here, that we exist with purpose. Everything is here to help us grow, expand and evolve even when initially appearing as obstacles in our path. So thank you, Matt. 

Matt | And so it is. I love it.

Robin | And so it is that is how we were closed and so it is. Thank you so much for listening. Visit Realloveready.com to continue learning with us. Please rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the tools and guidance you need to form more loving relationships and create positive change in your life. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage you to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well. Many blessings and much love.