Damona Hoffman - Rewrite the Dating Myths

In this episode of Let's Talk Love, Robin sits down with certified dating coach, Damona Hoffman to discuss the changing landscape of dating and relationships. Damona shares insights from over 15 years of coaching singles, and from her new book F the Fairy Tale: Rewrite the Dating Myths and Live Your Own Love Story. Robin and Damona explore the impact of online dating and the paradox of choice, where having too many options can be overwhelming. Damona offers practical strategies for dating with intention and emphasizes the importance of mindset, search strategies, and communication. She also discusses the importance of reevaluating deal breakers and must-haves to expand our dating pool.

Listeners will walk away with tools and skills to help build lasting partnerships. This is an inspiring conversation for anyone seeking fulfilling relationships in an ever-changing dating landscape.

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Learn more with Damona Hoffman

F the Fairy Tale: https://damonahoffman.com/f-the-fairy-tale/#booksellers

Work with Damona: https://damonahoffman.com/dating-help/

Ask The Experts Q&A: https://youtu.be/uNapf0pWiaM

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Watch the podcast on YouTube: youtube.com/realloveready

Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Today I had an excellent conversation with certified dating coach Damona Hoffman. Damona has been coaching singles on how to find love online and offline for over 15 years. She's a regular cast member of the Drew Barrymore show and a frequent contributor to The Washington Post, the LA Times and Access Hollywood. Today we talk about her newest book, F the Fairy Tale, Rewrite the Dating Myth and Live Your Own Love Story. Dating has changed dramatically over the last 10 years. And demonios book breaks down prevailing dating myths many people are still stuck on. She emphasizes the four pillars of strong relationships and gives tools for navigating online and in real life dating today. I learned so much from Damona. I love every conversation that I have with her. And I hope that today's conversation helps you in your dating life to 

Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information, and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme. Now, Let's Talk Love. Hello, and welcome to Let's Talk Love. Today we're going to be talking all about love and dating relationships with dating coach Damona Hoffman, Damona, thank you for being with us again.

Damona Hoffman | Oh, it's great to see you. Great to be with you.

Robin Ducharme | It's always the best. I love your energy and you just come with so much wisdom and like all the tips that we need to navigate this very changing dating landscape. I'm in it. I'm full blown in it these days. I'm gonna still get all of this stuff to Damona.

Damona Hoffman | I will give you everything I have over the last 17 plus years of dating coaching that I've been tracking it because it's an interesting time right now, isn't it?

Robin | It's a very interesting time. I loved your book. Okay, we're going to talk a lot about this your book called F the Fairy Tale. I love it. And we did a little podcast or an IG episode about this last week. And today we're going to dive into the meat of in this book because I was preparing for this podcast and my best friend Kirsten and I we work on all the podcasts together, read the books, we we talk about every about it all week, we learned what were our biggest takeaways. And we both agreed we're like, okay, we can only we're gonna get through a lot of what we're gonna talk about, but it's like scratching the surface of actually what's in this book. Because it's full. It's so full of a lot of a lot that people I hope they all read it because we're gonna talk about today, just a little bit of it.

Damona | Good. Well, I'm glad to hear that it was a labor of love Robin, I'm sure it took about three years for this to come from concept to reality. So I really tried to infuse a lot of the questions that I've gotten from my listeners on Dates and Mates over the last 11 years that I've been doing that show all of the experiences that my clients have been through the ups and downs, the the frustrations, the dating, burnout, everything that I know people are experiencing right now. And to really leave people with a sense of hope, and a sense of clarity, ultimately, that there's that a lot of this is is more within our control than we realize and I just want people to feel empowered about dating rather than, you know, hopeless or helpless. 

Robin | Yes, so you name today book F the Fairy Tale. Tell us about that. Let's just start there, okay, because this is based on changing, changing our mindsets around dating about relationships in general. And a lot of that so much so much of that has to do with our mindset and our belief systems around around all of this.

Damona | Completely. And you get it Robin like you get the title. A lot of people think when they hear f the fairy tale they think I'm saying F love like forget it, you don't need it. It's quite the opposite. It's saying F those stories that you've heard that were passed down to you from prior generations from society from rom coms from fairytales F that and it's really the subtitle rewrite the dating myths and live your own love story that I want people to walk away from so as F the Fairy Tale gets them in the door because they're like, yeah, yeah, that's how I'm feeling right now. But it's really the transformation is all in that rewriting the stories and not accepting the stories that have been spoon fed to us our whole lives? 

Robin | Yes, so dating has changed a lot. And now we're in this we're in this world of online dating. And I know there's people that are gonna be like, I do not want to do it. I refuse. And, okay, we're gonna get into that. But I really, you know, we know it is dating, online dating, you do say is dating. So let's just, like take that all out. Right? Because dating is dating. A lot of people are meeting their mate online, but let's even not let's just start there. 

Damona | Yeah I I feel a lot of frustration around dating. And we're all kind of looking for whose fault is it? Like I fully acknowledge, dating has changed and dating is not easy today. I don't know that it was ever easy. But it's really, it's it, there are a lot of more complex, complicating factors today, to navigating through dating. And I feel like we're looking for whose fault is it? Is it, Is it the rom coms fault? Is it my friend's fault? Is it my ex's fault? It's the dating apps fault. It's a dating app. 

Robin | For sure it is the apps

Damona | Right. And we want to we put a lot we're making the apps do a lot of work for us. I mean, even just this lawsuit of people suing dating apps for being addictive. It's like, okay, all right. Let's take some, let's take some personal responsibility ourselves, because this is what we wanted. And I've seen the whole evolution, Robin, because I've, I was very early adopter. I met my husband online 20 years ago. And I started coaching singles shortly thereafter on writing dating profiles. So I've been in the game for a minute. And what I know is that dating apps are just a tool. It's, it's no different than knowing how to meet someone, IRL, it's no different than speed dating. It's no different than asking for introductions, they are just a tool to make the connection. And there's a right way to use the tool. And then there's a really frustrating way to use the tool. And like I say in F the Fairy Tale. It's like you're trying to hammer a nail into the wall. But you're using a soft for it. And you're like, why is this not working? It's taking so long. This is so frustrating. You know what, saws don't work? No, well, they don't work when you're using them the wrong way. And if you can just get a hammer, just understand how to use a hammer, then you're going to be like, oh, okay, this makes a lot more sense. So what I say to the people that are like, No, I cannot use dating apps, it's just one tool in your dating toolbox. It shouldn't be your only tool. But it also shouldn't be a tool that you just discard. Because it's unfamiliar to you, or you haven't really yet learned how to use it effectively.

Robin | Right. And I think we're gonna go into a lot of ways that we can use the apps for our advantage, because you give so many ways that we can. But you know, I love the fact that you started about the background around like, we're dating is now, right. And you talk about how the changes, like 60% of adults under the age of 35, 60% now live without a spouse or a partner. In 2021, the average first marriage age reached 3o men and 28 for women. So we're getting married later, there's way more people that are single, that are under the age of 35. And there's also the factors that you've talked about, which have shifted big time in the fact that we're traveling way more technology has like overtaken our lives, right. Like we are immersed in technology, like most of us, and feminism has taken a front seat. So these are things that are that have absolutely really expanded how and why obviously dating has changed relationships have changed for all these reasons.

Damona | Yeah. I love that you actually read the book.

Robin | I read all the books Damona

Damona | You right. These are these are all factors that I have seen impact dating today. And it's really interesting when you look at not just the raw numbers, but how they're correlated with other things that have happened in recent history, like birth control, for example, being made available and also abortion. I know it can be a divisive issue, but that is directly correlated, with people choosing to marry later, and if you look at the graph of marrying age, I know there's some people listening that are like 28-30. Like that's still very young. When you really look at it just about 50 years ago, those numbers were like 19 and 20. And it's only in the last 10 years that it started going up exponentially.

Robin | What a difference, right? That's Yeah, huge, huge differnce

Damona | Huge, a huge difference. Like if you look at the graph, I wanted to put the graph in the book, but they're like us too complicated. 

Robin | I would have loved the graph, I'm a graph girl.

Damona | You can go look up the graph, I have it in, in the, in my references, the graph is striking to look at because it's literally like, steady, steady, steady, steady, all of a sudden, it jumps up. What else happened about 10 years ago, Robin, I don't have to tell you, online dating, dating apps were invented. And all of these other advancements that you just mentioned, have had an impact on the way that we connect, and the way that we communicate, and the choice that we have. That's really one of the big takeaways from this book, is to remind yourself how much choice you have in today's world, when 50 years ago, women didn't have that much choice in their dating and marriage selections. 

Robin | And one of the things that we just keep going back to in the dating world dating relationship world is the fact that having more choice can often be such a huge detriment. We're not actually, it is a problem. This isn't such a huge, it's not it's not like we got off endless choice, because actually, that's not the reality.

Damona | Yeah, I'm a maximizer. So I love choice. And that's why I really loved online dating, that made dating so much easier for me, because it felt like my pool went from, you know, people I met at work and friends circles and bars, which was never really that was not my venue to so many more compatible people, anywhere throughout my, my city, and you know, my search radius. And even that has changed. You talked about travel, like even and communication, having digital communication, that has expanded a lot of our circles too. So ultimately, I really do think the choice is good. However, this paradox of choice, this overwhelm that I hear about a lot. And this belief that when people have the endless swipe, they're not going to choose which is not true. It's not true. Because, obviously, meeting through dating apps is one of the top three ways that people people meet and marry today. So people are making selections and decisions. But the challenge and the overwhelm. And the paradox of choice comes up when you haven't clarified the criteria by which you are searching, that the criteria that helps you helps you sort through all of these choices to get to the choice that is ultimately right for you.

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Robin | So let's go through the myths because this this is what you're saying the criteria that when we're talking about how to do first let's go through the four myths that you talk about. And we're so what what was the basis of these these common dating myths, right? Because it's the it's doing people wrong. Like the list myth, if you've got if you've got your list, it's like you're looking so many people are looking for the wrong thing. It's all so it's like choosing a car, a model of car, okay, I want this color I want this speed. I want this thing you know, kilometers per hour or no sorry,gas mileage,

Damona | Kilometres, miles, whatever.

Robin | The list myth write the rules myth, the chemistry myth and the soulmate now, can we go through those briefly and then

Damona | Yes, Let's start with the list myth, because that's really what we were just talking about. 

Robin | Yeah

Damona | The criteria by which you're searching when I say that the list is a myth, I'm not saying don't have any, any idea what you're looking for, it's quite the opposite. It's saying, let's actually look at that list and figure out what really fits for the life that you are building. And through this book, I have realized that these I have long term, I have pillars of long term compatibility that I've talked to my clients about for years that I've seen consistently add up to more successful, lasting relationships. And it was very interesting as I was reading the book, and I identified the myths that govern each phase of dating, like, we're talking right now about the mindset phase, the kind of preparing to date. And the list myth being the thing that gets a lot of people stuck there, I realized that these pillars that I've been talking about, for years, align really well with the myths as a, as antidotes to offer people a different thing to focus on. So when we begin with shared goals, relationship goals, goals for the future, what do you what do you want out of life? Let's plan this, let's visualize when we're in this mindset phase, what do we actually want? And then we look at our list and we're like, okay, how does six foot three, you know, brown hair, tall, dark and handsome, how does that actually add up to my specific relationship goals? It might, but it might not. And it might be a relic of a story, you heard of a prior relationship of a family of origin of something that doesn't necessarily belong to you. And that might be making your dating process harder.

Robin | Yes. So like your, let's talk about this one. For instance, you talk about how I love this one about height, because this is when I was working as a matchmaker and dating coach. That would for women that is on their top, It's like, I want a tall man. I mean, I'm five one, do you think I'm walking around going like, I need a man that's at least six feet or taller. Right. I could really, I don't want. Like, I want a person that, I don't know. Maybe they are shorter than me. And I think that that's okay. I am not looking for the tall person. But a lot of women are.

Damona | Well, first of all, you have the confidence of a much taller woman

Robin | I'm not ashamed of my height I'm good to go.

Damona | Well, secret secret reveal Robin, I'm actually I'm shrinking. I'm now 4' 11 and a half, I used to be five feet .

Robin | I did not know that Damona

Damona | I'm a little thing, so so tall. tall girls don't get mad at me for saying this. Because what people will always say that is like for your short how do you know? Because I'm a dating coach. And because I've been doing this for 17 years. And I I know that the height does not correlate to long term compatibility. 

Robin | Of course not.

Damona | What I do know is that it's about how you want to feel when you're with this person. And that for some people, the height is translating to a feeling of like, oh, well, I feel I feel uncomfortable. Because I'm tall. I feel uncomfortable being with a shorter guy because people are gonna look at us, and then it's gonna be weird. And it's, you know, or it, it means it reminds me of my dad or it reminds me of something I saw in a movie. You know, by the way, like everyone in Hollywood is all the guys are like 5'7, 5'8. Like, I work in television, I promise you, they're not tall men. So,

Robin | That is awsesome 

Damona | We have to really what I do in the book, I do dating math, because then I'm like, Okay, now see how these choices add up to a diminished dating pool for you? Because it's like, okay, you want a guy that's six, six feet or taller? That's about 14 and a half percent of the American population. I'm not sure about Canadian,

Robin | Exactly 14 and a half percent, okay, that so limited.

Damona | 6'3, 6'4, Now you're talking about 1%. That's six, four and taller. And the number of times that I've seen it on people's dating profiles or that people tell me that they want this when they come to me. I'm like, do you realize then when you compound that with and he has to be more educated than I am, he has to make more money he has to drive a certain car he has to whatever it is, it means that you're dating pool is being reduced each time you make those decisions, and sometimes people need to, like, actually see the numbers on the page to realize how they're doing it. But I just, I think height should not be a factor at all, it's funny because I did a video on this on my Instagram not that long ago. And people were like, yeah, I hear what you're saying, I just need them to be 5'7. It's like, no, no, you're not hearing what I'm saying. I'm saying just need him to be all of these other qualities that make you feel loved and cared for. And he's gonna be the height that he's gonna be. 

Robin | Right, Okay, so you talk about deal deal breakers, okay, this was this was a good learning for me to the must haves and the deal breakers, because that's another way that people if they've got too many deal breakers, or must haves, they so what are the most important things, right. And oftentimes, you're limiting your pool again, by having too many deal breakers. So you're saying, Okay, you can have three must haves and one deal breaker. 

Damona | Yes. So this shows up in two ways. There's just the deal breakers that you have in your mind. And we can, we can talk ourselves out of anything, we can find a red flag for anything. So one reason that I tell my clients, you get three must haves, and only one deal breaker is so that we keep that search expansive, at least in the beginning phase. And then when you meet them, then you're like, okay compatible or not compatible. And we can talk about the myths and the pillars that you'll encounter in the date phase later. But in that preparation, when you are focusing on the deal breakers, you will eliminate people from your pool unnecessarily. The other thing, and what I really highlight in the book is how people are using deal breakers on dating apps in a way that is really, really making it harder for the dating app to work for you. So a lot of the apps now than many of these are paid features. But a lot of the apps allow you to know what your deal breakers are. And the app is really the algorithm was programmed before the deal breakers were a thing. So the app is really programmed to work for you. Maybe with one deal breaker, you get one deal breaker and it will still spit out a high number of matches for you. If you start then adding oh, well, then this is also a deal breaker and this is also a deal breaker, then it doesn't it can't compute that information. And what you don't realize is how many people have that deal breaker somewhere in some respect. Like, let's just say, let's just say it's religion, right. And you're open on religion, but you've checked certain boxes. And that person may be just said, not religious. And that's not actually a deal breaker for you. But the the algorithm doesn't know how to read that gray area. Does that make sense? Where it's like, oh, well, that would have been okay. I was just saying that, that I wouldn't be right for somebody who practices these religions. But now, I am eliminating someone that could have been a match because I made a line in the sand around something that was ultimately a nuanced conversation.

Robin | Right. You're giving an example where you had a dating coach client, who she was like, I don't have any matches. It's just this, this online dating thing is not working for me. It's been months and months. I've been at it. And it's just like, this is just I'm coming up with nothing.

Damona | I don't have any matches. And I was like, I heard this a million times. I don't have any matches. I don't have any matches.

Robin | So you went into her profile? 

Damona | Yeah. 

Robin | You found that she had all these deal breakers that were that were checked.

Damona | Well, first I went to see, she actually had no matches. And I was like, Oh, that's really weird. Like for me to log into an app after I think she had been on for a month or two. And I'm like, you have no matches what is going on under the hood. We have six deal breakers. Yeah, who is threading this gauntlet, of deal breakers. There's just no I'm not telling folks to compromise. 

Robin | No, no no

Damona | I'm just saying let's really, really do a hard look at what we're saying is it deal breaker. And like I even give an example in the book, smoking like a lot of times people will say smoking. That's a deal breaker. I, and I'm not I'm not a smoker. I'm not necessarily a fan of smoking. But I was like, Is it really a deal breaker though if this person is like everything that you're looking for, and you're just like, well, I don't smoke. I don't really like the smell of smoke. But like, this is your person. Is it really a deal breaker? Is that is that does that add up to how you're live your life? Maybe it does, because like, maybe you don't want to take this person taking smoke breaks, or you don't want the smelling. I don't know. But I'm just saying. Let's just ask what if because there's a lot of things that we've just come to accept of like, you know, I live in California, nobody smokes like, okay, so yeah, that's a deal breaker. But that's like a big assumption. That's a big leap that I'm making, just based on the bubble that I live in. 

Robin | Yes I've got a really funny personal story about that, because I met my first husband while I was a smoker. This was way back when. And he said to me during our first date, like I would never date a smoker. And I was like, me neither.

Damona | And then you're in it Robin. 

Robin | No. And then I'm like, oh, shit, I really have to quit like, immediately. So I mean, it took me a little while of like, pausing smoking, this was like in my early 20s. Like, I would just smoke like two or three before having a date. And of course, brushing my teeth, perfume, perfume, and then okay, I'm good for the whole night. And the next morning, I'm like, okay, Robin, you know, taper down. And within a couple of weeks, I quit smoking, but he never saw me smoke. He never knew I smoked. So I know. But my point is like, but he knows now. He does know, I told him later, I was like I was smoking. Right. So that's a good, what I'm saying is like I that could have been an online situation where we may not have met. If that was in his, I wouldn't have said I was a smoker. But anyway, that's another thing altogether.

Damona | I love that story. I'm like, I wish I knew that story when I was writing the book, Robin, because I totally would have included it. Honestly, you just made my point. Because some of these factors are also changeable. And so we're like, well, I could never even things like distance. Like I'll see people making, okay, I can't translate into kilometers, but like five a five mile radius is the max.

Robin | Oh, my gosh. 

Damona | You know, in in Los Angeles, of course, it's there's very different communities. And I understand like, there's a kind of East Side, West Side beef going on.

Robin | Like, it's very limiting. 

Damona | If your person is literally right there, they're 5.1 miles away. And you just were like, No, not in my pool, not nine gonna see him. That, to me, is what this is why I, I originally called myself a dating strategist. That's where something in your strategy is broken. And so many times Robin, the the shifts are so minut when I'm working with with a coaching client, I just get under the hood. It's kind of like you taking your car to a mechanic, right. Like, I don't know anything about cars, I'm just like, all I know is the check engine light is on. And sometimes sometimes there's something really wrong and you got to drop it off and leave it in the shop for a while. But like, it always kills me the times when it's just like, oh, we just needed to like swap that out. Or this thing was a little loose or whatever, you know, it's like 15 minute changes fixed. And that is really my experience with so many of my clients where I just peek under the hood. And I'm like, Oh, you have the deal breaker switch on, oh, you change out your primary photo. Oh, you know, it's just a little bit of a mindset shift, or you just need to practice your flirting skills or you know, whatever it is sometimes it's a small shift that has a ripple effect and a big change. Overall, most of the clients who've been through my coaching program within three to six months from ending the program end up in a relationship, how am I able to, to replicate these results for all ages for all locations. Again, and again and again, one because I'm magical and amazing. No, it's not that it's it's that we are like everyone is really this close to finding that relationship. And we all just we're living with our own blinders on. We all have our own stories and belief systems and sometimes we just need a slight rewrite to get to the ending that we want. 

Robin | Right perfect. So you Talk about the pillars. Okay? I do want to go through the colors, because these are really important. And you said it doesn't matter when, you know, nor do you want to go through a few more myths, because of course, there's,

Damona | Yeah, let's talk about the myths and then I'll correlate them with the pillars. 

Robin | Yes please

Damona | Because there are two sides of the same coin. So the, as we're going chronologically through, we started with mindset, then there's the search. This is how you're finding dates, we started out sort of talking about dating apps. But I talked about all of the ways that you actually have at your fingertips to be able to expand your dating pool and quickly and quickly to, but the problem there is that everyone is in such a rush that we're going based on the rules myth, and we're going based on we want dating hacks, and we want the shortcuts and it's just like, just just tell me XYZ, how it's done. And this is why, you know, I'm saying it's little shifts for each person, but it's not all the same shift. And so we may like, going back to the car analogy, like, if every time you took the car in the shop, they're just like, Oh, you got to, you need a new carburetor. I don't even know what a carburetor does. But you know, I'm saying, if everyone just gets a new carburetor, it's like, well, that'll fix maybe a 10th of the cars. But then there's all these other cars that are like, wait, my carburetor was fine, I actually make you to check, check the oil or something else. So that's why the rules don't really work today. Because there's so much individuality in dating, that we all have to be able to dial in our own dating strategy. And be willing to, to go through that experience, which isn't always fun isn't always comfortable. But it's so rich in self study and learning about ourselves. So I say tools over rules. 

Robin | Yeah, I like that. Your book is full of tools, that's for sure.

Damona | Yeah. And the antidote to the rules myth is really focusing in on your values, and finding somebody who shares your values. And you can even meet people, when you lean into your values in different ways beyond just the dating apps. But then you got to go on the date. And that's where the chemistry myth comes up. And so many times people write into Dates and Mates and say, Well, I thought they were cute. They're great on paper, but I just didn't feel a spark. I just didn't feel the chemistry the first date, so and I have just seen time and time again, that chemistry develops over time. It cannot be told on that first date. So I coach my clients to to pursue curiosity. I know we talked about this on on our IG live, curiosity over chemistry, Curiosity is really the stuff that is an endless Well, curiosity is why I'm sitting here 20 years after meeting, my husband's still excited, we're going out on a date tonight. And I'm like, I'm excited giddy excited like I was 20 years ago, because I'm still so curious about him. If it was just chemistry, I mean, he's also very cute, and we have chemistry, but it's the curiosity those the deeper well, and that's where communication, the communication pillar really comes up, have to be able to communicate, you have to be able to have conflict resolution skills, you have to really be able to express those shared goals and shared values that we were talking about earlier. But it's tough to get to the future phase of dating, when we're focused on finding a soulmate. Now, I want to hear your take on this because I I get a lot of like a lot of pushback on the soulmate myth.

Robin | I'm sure you do. I think that it's funny because my first company was called Locate Your Soulmate. Okay, this was like, in my, in my 20s I'm now 46. So here we go. I've totally shifted my perspective. And my, my, my view on this because I believe wholeheartedly that we can be attracted to many, many different types of people in this world. And we can build healthy, beautiful relationships with many, many people in this world.

Damona | 100 percent

Robin | It's not just one person.

Damona | Yeah, and I say in the book that soulmates are made, they're not born, they're made. You choose your soulmate every day. So this idea that there's one perfect person predestined for you out there. About 70% of people believe in soulmates and that just kills me because that's like we're just riding on hope. Hope that that person is just going to I have read you talk.

Robin | You talk about hope-ism 

Damona | Hopium

Robin | We're like, like, oh, be 

Damona | We're addicted to hopium. 

Robin | Yeah. And we have to have hope, okay, because hope fuels us, for you in so many different ways in our lives. And I, you know, I'm dating right now, and I'm full of hope that I'm going to need, of course, I'm going to need somebody it's not even a question. I've got lots of hope. But that doesn't mean I'm not taking action. And I'm not and I have to constantly bring my mindset back to, you know, you have a really shitty date. And you're like, actually, you know, it's happened to me a couple times now, right. It's probably gonna happen more. But it's like, you got to pick yourself up, okay. That was really crappy. And you know, for a couple days, you're like, down the dumps, but you're like, alright, get back up, you're getting back on. Or going out with a smile and want to dress nicely go to the grocery store, and, and actually start conversation with people be be out there. So it's not I'm not lost in hope. I'm actually taking, I'm in, I'm taking action to.

Damona | I love hearing that. And it's also an acknowledgement that each of these experiences builds us.

Robin |  Mm hmm.

Damona | It, it teaches us something, I'm sure even from those crappy dates you had, you took something from it, even if it was just like, Oh, I'm not gonna go out with somebody, again, that says XYZ, you know, before the date, or whatever it is, there's some learning in there, I'm not going to spend as much time or I'm going to do a screening phone call before the date, you know, there's something that you can take away from it. Because I that's just honestly the only way that I can process adversity. Because otherwise, it's just like, crappy things happening. crappy, crappy dates, crappy. You know, crappy situations, like, if we, if we can't learn or grow from, from it, it's just just a waste of time. And time is our most valuable resource, we're not getting any more of it. So let's use that time effectively. But if you're pursuing a soulmate myth, then it's going to prevent you from taking the action that you were just saying, and also from seeing the person when they're right there in front of us. And I get this question on Dates and Mates a lot, too. How do you know how did you know when you met your husband? How do you know? Like, because one slow love. And two, when you have trust, that is the ultimate pillar, which cannot be built immediately. You can't trust someone on the first date or the second to trust someone.

Robin | There a stranger

Damona | I mean, you can trust them enough for the date. But yeah, there's still a stranger, to really have the trust that relationships are built on, you have to see consistently that that person's words match their actions, that you're aligned on all of the other pillars. And that you can trust yourself that that you've aligned your actions towards the future that you want. You're never gonna get like the the bells going off in the the angels tooting their horns from the heavens. That's, it's never going to happen. It all boils down to a choice, a feeling and a choice. 

Robin | Yes. 

Damona | And that's magical to me. That's hopeful to me. I know for some people, they're like, oh, but but your boss Drew Barrymore when I see her movies, there's always a moment, you know. 

Robin | That's in the movie, right.

Damona | Yeah. And the movies, but we're writing our own love stories here. And to me, that's way more empowering. 

Robin | Yes. And, you know, I love the fact that you do you know, because you're on the Drew Barrymore show so often and, and Drew is so genuine and honest herself, and she's, you know, she talks about her dating life. And, you know, in the movies, she's hooking up with the right guy, and it's all working out at the end. And in real life, she's dating, she's in the trenches is just like, you know, you know, and it's like, all the ups and downs that go along with it, but that's life. So

Damona | Yeah, I told her she did us dirty, with her rom coms, but no, she's amazing. And I love how, how real and raw she can be with dating. And it is a real privilege for me to be able to coach her viewers, audience members through dating and show people what this experience is in in a real honest way. Because you know, there's a lot of TV where it is glossy and in imperfect and people marry the first time they've met after, you know, after a week or whatever, but I, I love that I get to really show people transforming on camera and also being their real authentic self, because that's what people really connect to the authenticity. And that's what we want from others when we're out here dating. 

That's right. So in the book, you go through the four types of apps. See, I didn't realize this is the app that I sent, like, whatever this was like, oh, man, I needed to know this, and this and this. So there's right now, and I'm sure there's gonna be more as probably today, there's another type of app that's that's developed. But

There is more I'm working on one. I can't talk about it yet. But

Robin | But there's four types of apps,

Damona | It's gonna be a new category emerging. 

Robin | Okay, great. 

Damona | Technology today

Robin | But we got to keep up with it. And I think if we know about the types of apps that we're on that we're joining, and how they are they differ, because they functionally they function differently, right?

Damona | Yes, yes. And one of the most common questions I get is what's the best app for I'm a 46 year old woman who lives here who has, you know, usually I'll just tell me like their, their, their age and their location, they're like, what's the best app, and I'm like, I don't have enough information. First of all, because it varies from place to place, it varies based on how much time you have to swipe. It varies based on the functionality that you like, it varies based on what you are looking for. So I break it all down into four types of apps that I have interacted with in my work as a dating coach. There, there are the the legacy apps, these are like the Match Dot Coms and the apps that have a large user base that were not built on swipe technology that were built on longer form profiles, back when online dating works a lot better. I, I love well, I'll get into the swipe apps next. But we used to have a lot more information in the profiles. And now even the legacy apps have started reducing the amount of information in the profiles because that's what the users want. So we got what we wish for. And here we are, but they have a lot of users. So they require a lot of time to search and store it and message and all of that. Then we have the swipe apps, which prioritize ease of use. However, however, we don't have a lot of information to go on. So we wanted it to be really easy to create a profile, we wanted to be able to swipe through like hot or not style. This is fun. This is kind of a game. And these apps are have huge data databases, a huge user bases. But they also tend to have less functionality, especially less free functionality now. And it takes more time to do the sort. So really quick to make a match really long to get to the date. Then we have curated apps. So these are the apps that they feed you a certain number of matches, like the E Harmonies, or the Coffee Meets Bagel, where it's not an endless swipe. It's you fill out this questionnaire, we kind of know who you are. And what you're looking for. Here are the people who we believe are right for you. These are better for folks that don't want to spend a lot of time swiping or maybe if you're new to online dating, and you're afraid you might get overwhelmed by a swipe app like Tinder or Bumble, that's a good option for you. And then there are the niche apps. These are the ones like J date or Farmers Only.

Robin | Yeah, sure there's something for Christian Mingle, right 

Damona | Christian Mingle, where you already know that the people there meet a certain criteria that you're looking for. So these are sort of the values based searches and what I was talking about, you know, finding your community of people, you already go to that community, but the challenge is there's a smaller pool. So sometimes if people have been accustomed to the the swipe apps or the legacy apps, they're like, where is everybody? Well, we kind of already had the deal breaker laid down. So now everyone here meets your criteria, but there aren't as many options for you to sort through. So it's really just about ultimately figuring out which app is right for you right now. By figuring by deciding which app you like the matches on and you like the functionality. And that's it.

Robin | Right. We have so, you know, you do suggest that people be on more than one app not at the same time. Right? Depends on the functionality because I didn't like I'm on I'm on hinge which because I was like, well, I don't know. I think it'll be good. It's my first time online dating forever, in a very, very long time. And but I do think what I'm, what I'm finding is that the limited information like I want, we like, you know, the one sentence I like, like hiking and fishing, I'm like, yeah, see that from your pictures, you're hiking, or in the gym, all the guys have their picture with them. That's another thing altogether, but all the gyms pictures, please guys, there has to be more than a picture of you in the mirror with your workout clothes on. I mean, we all work out most of us do. Come on.

Damona | I'm actually yeah, I'm gonna be doing some videos about that, too on my instagram.

Robin | It's so tacky, It's not necessary. 

Damona | Hinge is an interesting case, because it's sort of a hybrid of a couple different. Yeah, because it's there's a little more information than than the swipe ABS doesn't have. It's not a swipe app doesn't have a swipe technology. It's not a legacy app, really. And it's not. It's not really a cure. It's not really curated. And it's definitely not niche. So it kind of lives in an in between space. I like that you have to queue off of something specific. But I still feel like as you said, things, it's very, it is very thin on information. And that's why I have this whole chapter in F the Fairy Tale about the texting trap, and how to DM and text effectively, because it's a step now in the dating process. And you have to be able to get from the match on the app to the actual date. But some people can tolerate more than one app at a time, I find a lot of times, especially today, people get overwhelmed. So I say now, I actually introduced this on the Drew Barrymore show to do what I call cycling, where you're on one app for three to four weeks, then you cycle to the next, then you cycle back to the first so that you're always seeing fresh matches. But again, that's based on the prerequisite that you like the matches on the app, and you like the functionality, you're not dreading it. Like, I don't want you on an app. If you're like, oh, I have to sign in to Tinder  again I hate it, you know,

Robin | Exactly. matches what know that then choose a different app, right? Because there's choices.

Damona | There are so many apps out there. And we tend to just kind of go to the same three apps. But there are a lot of app options. Some of them either is also like an approval process. So you know, don't get discouraged if you're not on it, like right away, like we tend to want it now. It's just like, okay, I need a date. Now. I'm just gonna sign up now. And we have a glass of wine. And we sloppily write our bios, yeah, we'll pictures and then we're like, why isn't it happening now? But let's take a more mindful approach, because then the results you're gonna get will align more with your expectations and will will be a little bit more mindful as well. 

Robin | Yeah, So you answer so many of your client questions that you in the book, which we all have these these same questions. So there's a question in the book around like, what do you think about dating more than one person at a time?

Damona | I'd say yes. And, 

Robin | Yes. 

Damona | With the caveat that both people are on the same page, I think the assumption is that you're dating multiple people until it is proven otherwise. And if you and you're, the person you're dating are, haven't had the conversation that you're exclusive, you should just assume you're not exclusive. And this is a change from, you know, 20 years ago, I know there are a lot of people that come to dating apps, fresh from like, maybe having never used the apps having not been single in the modern era of dating and, and also it does vary from country to country to like I used to find for clients in the UK about I don't even like six or seven years ago. The assumption was, you're exclusive until you say that you're going to date other people. And that is in the US that has been that has not been the norm for a long time.

Robin | Yes. I quoted this or wrote this down, because I've just love this. Because it's about dating, you talked so much about this about dating, like you said with curiosity. And dating with purpose. Dating with purpose is not about how many people you can get to pursue you. It's about getting to a more honest place about who you are and how you want to live your life. Remember, it takes only one person to turn your relationship reality around. So try not to get to invested in any one match when you send that first message. Because I think we get so invested in the online dating process to your just because we're in this hopium for you. Is it hopium? 

Damona | Hopium

Robin | Okay good. Because right? And you're like, okay, this is it. This is the guy, right? And then you message and you're like, so invested in this person, and maybe they don't message you back. Or maybe you're messaging a couple times, and all of a sudden, dead in the water they got right. Like this, this, that happens all the time. Okay, but you say treat those messages. I love this. And matches like coins in a fountain. If you toss in a penny, and your wish comes true, that's a beautiful blessing. But if it doesn't, are you really going to be disappointed over a penny? Toss more pennies, make more wishes, and the ones that are meant to come true will oh, Damona, I loved that. Like you, you want to be in it. You want to be spending your energy and your time in it. But you also have to just treat this as in like, yeah, it's don't take it personally. You don't know this person. Right until you meet them in person. That's the other thing. 

Damona | Yeah, it's rarely personal. 

Robin | Right 

Damona | But you know, it's usually in the beginning, as you said, it's rarely personal. And I recognize what I'm asking folks to do is a hard thing. 

Robin | Yeah

Damona | To not to not internalize that to not make it about you because it feels very personal. When you're like, I got ghosted. What did I do wrong? Maybe nothing, maybe they were already talking to somebody else. And they started to just kind of feel a pull towards that person. And they felt kind of guilty. They were keeping another conversation going. And they didn't know how to end it. And they didn't have the tools because they didn't read F the airy Tale they don't know. So they made a choice that was hurtful to you. And that's not okay. But it's also not yours to carry. Right. So if we can adopt that more coins in a fountain mindset, then you can sustain like, what I'm trying to get people to do is to, to weather the dating storm. Like, I have certain guidelines in the book. I know I said tools over rules, I have certain guidelines about like, giving it three dates.

Robin | Keeping the first date short

Damona | Keeping the first date short, setting a limit a drink limit, like I we established were little women here. Yeah, I cannot hold my liquor, Robin, I cannot I know this about myself. If I have more than if I have more than one drink. I'm not going to make the best decisions. If I have more than two drinks, my whole next day is ruined. And I I have just never seen someone date from the best place when they're at that state. And so for someone listening, that might be two drinks, that might be four drinks. I don't know, maybe it could be six drinks, depending on your lifestyle habits. I don't know, you know what that number is. But setting those guidelines is really important. Now, I will admit to you when I met my husband, I had two drinks. I did. And it's not that I broke my rule. It's that I had the rule in place, so that I could go through all of those frogs to get to the prince, right. Because if I had been having two drinks with everyone, I wouldn't have known that this was different. If I'd had two drinks with everyone, I might have gotten caught up in my feelings. And I might have made some bad dating decisions that I wasn't proud of, or what whatever it is, I needed the longevity of that dating process to be able to be in the right place at the right time with the right person.

Robin | Yeah, well, I Damona I just I love talking to you. I kept your time when their time goes, it goes so fast with you, because it's just Oh, it's so great. And this book, like I said, we just scratched the surface because it's so like, you talk a lot about dating, like getting off the app and how are you going to navigate the dating get the texting part, that's a huge piece of the book, and then you've got the dating. And then you've got of course being in the relationship and the conflict resolution strategies and it just but but let's just even just going back to the dating part. I think what you also talked about what you already mentioned in our conversation is slow love We're in a fast paced world. And everything. We try to do it all in a day, and getting on the ops. And it's like it's almost it can be addictive, right. It's just like, you're just you just want to get the swipe. And it's like, whoa, who's next? Who's next? But I think we just got to slow down. Be more mindful. Have an be thoughtful about how are you going to message this person? Because actually, they do this, they do seem pretty interesting. In their profile. I would like to have a good conversation with text. Let's see, ask some good questions. Be curious. possibly get to the first date. When you arrive, you're going to be present and curious. And listen, I love the fact you've got coaches that help people that like, like, mock dating, you're giving them mock dates, and like teaching people how to listen, rather than talk so much. Right

Damona | Have to practice this. Yeah

Robin | Yeah. But bottom line is, it's about taking it slow. Because the other thing you emphasize so much in your book is making the choice on who you're going to partner with is one of the most important decisions of your life. And I think we have to remember that. And this is not something to take lightly, or to rush in to right.

Damona | It is it is it's so funny to me that this is the most important decision you'll ever make. And yet, it's the decision that a lot of people leave to chance. 

Robin | Right.

Damona | Why wouldn't we do this strategically, like, you literally make a list to go to the grocery store. You know, you make plans for everything else in your life. And then you get to love and you're like, I just want it to happen magically. No, I don't want it to just happen magically. I want to make a really slow and thoughtful selection.

Robin | Right.Yes, yeah.

Damona | That's what we're doing. So I invite, invite your listeners to do that, to go on that journey with me.

Robin | And I invite everbody I'm holding up your book again so that people can see the cover because it's, it's I love how it's so bright and happy. And the name is F the Fairy Tale. But really, really the subtitle is rewrite the dating. That's and live your own life story. So I'm going to close our conversation with a blessing based on all the learnings from that I received from Damona Hoffman this week. May we F the Fairy Tale by releasing the dating and relationship myths that have been instilled in us so that we can date from a place of curiosity, joy and presence. May we treat the people that come across our dating path with kindness, respect and empathy. You talk a lot about empathy in the book. And may we create our own love stories that are based on shared values, shared vision for the future, on trust, and a relationship growth mindset. So thank you, Damona Hoffman. 

Damona |  Robin that was absolutely beautiful. Thank you for that blessing. I feel so heard and seen and inspired and I hope everybody else listening does too. Thank you so much for having me.

Robin | Thank you so much sweetheart. It's always a pleasure. Thank you so much for listening. Visit realloveready.com to continue learning with us. Please rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the tools and guidance you need to form more loving relationships and create positive change in your life. We at  Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage you to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well. Many blessings and much love.