Dr. Alexandra Solomon - Love Lessons

In this episode of Let's Talk Love, Robin is joined by clinical psychologist, Dr. Alexandra Solomon to discuss her new book, Love Every Day: 365 Daily Practices for Loving Relationships. Robin and Dr. Solomon explore themes like overcoming defensiveness, practicing empathy over problem-solving, managing vulnerability in relationships, and making meaningful apologies. This thought-provoking conversation provides tools for personal and relational growth.

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Credits: the Let’s Talk Love Podcast is hosted by Robin Ducharme, recorded and edited by Maia Anstey, and transcribed by Otter.ai.

Transcript

Robin Ducharme | Today I had the joy of speaking with someone who I've had the pleasure of working with many times Dr. Alexandra Solomon. Dr. Solomon was a keynote speaker at our In Bloom summit in Vancouver in 2023. Over the last two decades, she has become one of today's most trusted voices in the world of relationships. And her work on relational self awareness has reached millions of people around the world. She's a clinical psychologist at Northwestern University, where she also teaches the internationally renowned course, Building Loving and Lasting Relationships, Marriage 101. Today, I wanted to talk to her about her newest book, Love Every Day, which offers 365 daily practices to help your relationships heal, grow and thrive. So today, we opened this book and went through a few lessons that I have flipped to, we talked about sex, practicing non defensiveness, the difference between problem solving and empathy, and the importance of making an apology. Love Every Day is a book I turned to for daily relational guidance. And I invite you to buy a coffee for your coffee table, or give it to someone in your life who you love. Enjoy. 

Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information, and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships on your host Robin Ducharme. Now, Let's Talk Love. 

Robin Ducharme | Hello, everyone and welcome to Let's Talk love. I'm just so excited about this conversation because today we're joined by Dr. Alexandra Solomon, who I love, Dr. Solomon, Alexandra, thank you for joining us and I love working with you like we've done this like quite a few times. Now we've worked together in person and on drinks, virtual summits. And of course during the podcast, IG lives and I love your work and I love you as a human being. So thank you for joining us.

Dr. Alexandra Solomon | Well, the feeling is super mutual. I I have so many fond memories of the conference that you organized last spring, I think of you every time I wear the gorgeous scarf that you gave me as part of the part of being a speaker at that conference. So whenever you wherever you want, whenever you want me, I'm going to be a yes, because I just value you and the good good good work that you put out into the world. And everything you create is done with so much care and so much respect for your collaborators. So it's it's easy to you're easy to love.

Robin | Oh, thank you, sweetheart. So I'm excited because we have I think 30 minutes to talk about your newest book, your newest, amazing, beautiful creation, Love Every Day. So when this came out Alexandra, I was like, oh my gosh, everybody's getting ready for Christmas. And so I ordered, like a box full. And we wrapped them. And I had a Christmas party and I gave everyone a wrapped book. And everyone put it under their trees. And they opened it. And the feedback I've received is just so beautiful. I'm just so happy people are loving it as much as I am. I love it.

Dr. Alexandra Solomon | Thank you that warms my heart I love it. It is, you know, we really there was so much love and thought that went into every element of the book. And we designed the book to feel like a gift in your hand. You know, it's the way that it's shaped the way that it feels. And so I love that you understood the assignment and you gifted this book to the people that you love, beautiful

Robin | Yes, so is tell us about it. So it's 365 lessons, relational self awareness, I would you say practices right? And to help your relationship heal, grow and thrive. This is relationships with everybody. I mean, whether you're single in partnership, really, regardless of relationship status, we can all obviously this is full of practices and tools that we can all use for better for relating better together, right.

Dr. Solomon | Yeah, yeah, it is i I love you know, I love every, every part of the process of writing a book. And I also know that there's a lovely place for a compliment to a chapter book, you know, is one of these daily books my whole life I have loved these 365 books. It just feels like a little, you know, a little, just a little something special every day and so it was really fun to be the one who was creating this opportunity to give people just a little something for everyday and as you know this work is A difficult to sometimes all you can handle is like a tiny bite. And B this work is requires revisiting, revisiting, revisiting. So I think there's something also about developing that practice of everyday kind of returning and taking a bit more that really parallels the journey of relational self awareness.

Robin | I agree, I love the fact that there's like a little bookmark as well, so that you can, if you, if you are doing it day by day, then you can you can use your bookmark to turn to the right page or the right date. But today, what I thought we would do is the way that I've been using your book is, so every morning or every night, I pull angel cards, just to kind of guide my day and have some guidance from the universe from source on what they would love me to pay attention to, and give me like, alright, I need I need, you know, some blog posts to follow today. And the way I use your book is like that. So I will just like literally flick, okay, right. Where do I feel like going today, and I'll open up to a page. And, of course, like, I do believe, but I'm like, this is something that I really need to hear today. This is something I need to be aware of, to read and follow. So I thought we would we would we would do that today. Go through a few of our questions. And what I love people. Yeah,

Dr. Solomon | I think it's really cool that you are I think it's really cool that you're finding your own way to use the book already. And certainly right, somebody could be very orderly, and, you know, look at the date on the calendar and find that page in the book and kind of map it all that way. We also color coded my team and I color coded all of the entries with nine different color codes that coincide with nine different themes like boundaries, self compassion, healing the past, dealing with conflict. And so if there's like a particular, you know, kind of issue you want to handle, you can find that, that color and work on one of those entries. But then the third way I think people can use it is just the way that you're using like as a deck of cards, like as a kind of take me where I need to go today. And so I think that's a really fun creative way to also use the book.

Robin | So I've got, I've got February, the seventh marked here, page 41. Okay. And I love this because obviously you're you're a sex expert sex therapist, as well as being a psychologist, clinically, you've got so much expertise in the sex world. And you've you've taken, you've written your book called Takingt Sexy Back, which I've got behind me. So this is great, because kay, you've got stats in here you're saying, research. First of all, the lesson is sexual challenges will happen. It's how we cope, that matters. And we all know that right? We've all experienced sexual challenges. So that's not new information. But what you're seeing here is research indicates 43% of women, and 31% of men report some degree of sexual difficulty. That was a really high stat, I was like, you know, like I said, we've all experienced sexual challenges in our lives, I think I believe most of us have. But then you go into how, you know, according to the National Center for Injury Prevention, as many as one in two women and one in three men are survivors of physical sexual violence of some kind. And, and of course, because of that sexual violence, often people that have survived sexual violence often struggle with long term sexual concerns, such as avoiding fearing or lacking interest in sex, feeling emotionally distant during sex and difficulties with orgasm. You know, I, you know, when you're when you think about those numbers, and the people, the number of people that have actually had experiences with some sort of sexual abuse is not surprising, among the other many, many other factors that could contribute to the challenges we have, with our sexual experiences. It's just that in itself was like the compassion piece. That's what brought it to mind for me, was just getting to the core of possibly where these challenges could lie. And also just maybe asking more questions, having more curiosity, right?

Dr. Solomon | Yep. Yep. Yeah, I mean, certainly, it's an example. You know, talking about the impact of earlier trauma on current, like, relationship with our sexuality is one of those ways that the past can show up in the present. And so I think that for a lot of people, if this idea, you know, hasn't landed before, it makes total sense. And it can feel sort of contrary, right like that sexual boundary violation was terrible, but sexual experiences with my partner are wonderful or want them to be wonderful or they're supposed to be wonderful. So that can feel confusing, incredibly frustrating. And, and also, it makes so much sense, right? Because what's required in order to create really a wonderful sexual experience with a partner is feelings of trust and safety and those are an essential element of healing from trauma right is beginning is stepping back into safety first and foremost in our own bodies. And then really knowing that we can advocate for ourselves. As one of my dear friends and trauma educators, Dr. Holly Richmond always reminds you know, she has this mantra of that was then this is now and so that practice like that practice that takes time of knowing, you know, kind of reminding our bodies that that moment we survive back then is not this moment now. And so I think it's really important for the reason that that entry is framed in that way is that I really want couples to know that when one or both are survivors of sexual trauma, that they have this opportunity, this sort of challenge slash opportunity to become allies and each other's healing and they can't, you know, no partner can heal somebody else totally. But my goodness, there certainly are powerful ways we can be allies to each other's healing journeys and recovery journeys.

Robin | Right. The other quote I wrote down was, when it comes to sex vulnerability is inescapable, which means shame is an ever present possibility. So I, you know, knew this so much is what do you invite us to do, like you said, is to feel those feelings, right? And, and shame is such a real human experience. And it's just like getting in. So it's like, knowing that with sex, shame, shame could be coming up, right? Maybe it's just like, oh, I don't know, if I'm feeling good in my body right now. Or I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not experienced in this area. And it's just inviting so much vulnerability when you're with somebody else.

Dr. Solomon | Yeah, absolutely. I think that there are people who have had people with absolutely zero sexual trauma history, although I would argue that's there are ways in which we all have some amount of sexual trauma just because we are so generally speaking, inadequately educated. And we have internalized such difficult harmful messages from the world about our sexuality, that there's kind of a measure of at least lowercase t trauma around just the messages we've internalized from culture. But even if somebody has, you know, is kind of aware of all that stuff, there's still gonna be shame that comes up because we're just so we're just so vulnerable. And there's, and there is we have an entire story of our own bodies. And then, you know, as we are putting our bodies near somebody else's body, as you're saying, there's, there's just these, like deep questions that come up around. Do you see me? Am I worthy? Do you admire me? You know, how, what does this mean for each of us, and chances are pretty good, it may mean something different, you know, any sexual experience could have slightly different meanings to each person. And our experiences are not going to be the same, you know, every time as our partners experience. And so just like noticing shame, and being present with it, rather than I think what we often do is like, say, because I'm experiencing shame, it proves that I'm broken, or because I'm experiencing shame. It, you know, that means something's wrong with my partner, I think sometimes we can make the experience of shame and like, try to put it on our partner's feet, you know. So again, that invitation to just notice it, notice it into and work with it really gently.

Robin | Yes. So I also pulled up another day, where you're talking about sex. This, this was I really loved this on November 25. This is page 362. This is the lesson is, I loved this, Dr. Solomon, you are not a machine. Nor are you a mystery to be unlocked. And you are certainly not a problem to be solved. This is when it comes to sex, like whoa, I never had that I was like, absolutely true. There's no such thing as figuring out your sexuality. You can't make a list of capital T truth that capture the essence of your sexual self. And then you talk about of course, how context shapes how you experience the present moment, right? What kind of mood are you in your stress level? Your How are you feeling about your body, like we talked about. And so our sexual experiences are, are, are formed in and experienced in such a contextual way. But I love the way what you're saying here about how you know, you're not a problem, you're not a problem to be solved. Like, if you're not if you're having some issues in the bedroom, like it's not, this isn't like you're the problem. It's like, all of these, all these other factors need to be considered here and we can work it out, right?

Dr. Solomon | Yeah, yeah. If you don't. That's right. That's right. If we don't have that ability to see that context, shapes our experience of our sexuality, then we're going to end up in the same place every time which is saying why doesn't this feel as good as it did last time? Or why can't I do this or why we If we don't, if we can't value and understand the power of contexts, then the only place the problem can live is either inside of me or inside of you. And, and that's where we get, like really stuck in those cycles of blame and shame. And, and so that invitation is to look at all like to just to just recognize that there are that our sexuality especially in a long I would argue, especially in a long term sexually monogamous relationship. Our sexuality is just ends up being a question like it's a question we get to kind of ask again and again, and what do I need in this moment? What am I seeking in this experience? What is coming forward for me now? What is my partner wanting? What am I available for, rather than that being this like hard and fast formula? Because if nothing else, even if we did figure out what the formula was that make sex quote, unquote, successful, whatever the heck that means, if we keep practicing the formula, it's gonna get a little bit stale. So even even if we are kind of clicking on all cylinders, we still want to leave a space for mystery and surprise and possibility.

Robin | Right. Love that. 

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Robin | Okay, so today's February 2 2024, as we are recording this, and today is about defensiveness. And I was I was just interviewing a couple last week, who are both therapists and what he said was his greatest lesson in their own relationship. And what he is doing so much coaching with men and their couples around is defensiveness, and how non defensive listening and how very important and that's difficult, that skill is. And so, today, your today's lesson is talking about defensiveness is less a personality trait, and more a pattern that arises in relational context. Yes, because we get into this pattern of internalizing where you're saying is about me, right? And you're like, Okay, well, what did I and then you're automatically on the defense. And so how are you? Like, how are you helping people to be less defensive? Because it is it this is like, first of all, you have to go inside yourself, like and be like, Alright, no, this is I'm gonna be like, try to be just a listener right now. And be more like an empathy and empathy place, than, on the defense. 

Dr. Solomon | Yeah. So this, you know, on this day, February 2, we're talking like the point of this entry is to help people even just begin to notice defensiveness, I think of it has been a pattern. You know, I think usually, I think defensiveness oftentimes stems from a family of origin, where your worth is, you know, where your kind of character was acquainted with your behavior. So when you were pushing back against, you know, your parents, for example, description of you're lazy, or you're selfish, you know, those like defensiveness is actually a survival strategy, right, In order to keep a sense of yourself and tact, you have to be able to have a way of deflecting that or at least attempting to deflect it. I think that many of us who struggle with defensiveness come by that tendency, honestly, there's also a whole cultural variable, I think that we are taught to, like, defend ourselves, we, you know, especially those of us in the, you know, the US of quote, unquote, West, highly individualistic, you know, perspective, win lose, right, wrong, like I think there is, I think there's an invitation to that, that that kind of behavior, and we're oftentimes rewarded for how quick witted we are, and how fast we can put the other person on their feet. Well, all of those, all those behaviors are toxic for our intimate relationships. So here in this entry, we're just working on what we what does defensiveness feel like inside of your body. And it's not the only you know, we have to talk about defensiveness as as the husband and your couple you're describing did as something that people oftentimes need to be coached on and worked with. But there's another part of it too, because defensiveness is Oftentimes a response to somebody coming in hot. So it also has to be put in that framework of is the other person approaching you in a way that maximizes your chances of being able to receive. Right. So it's a, there's a both and for sure. 

Robin | Yeah

Dr. Solomon | You know, but defensiveness, working on defensiveness, understanding how to listen and feeling really, really proud of the ability to listen with an open heart. That is, it's such an it, people deserve for that to be a source of pride, because it just creates so much yumminess in a relationship, you know

Robin | Right. And you can be like, okay, I just, I know myself, like, I am prone to being defensive in my, my partner, I was in my partnership. And it's even just being able to voice that. Right now. I'm feeling really defensive. And how about that? Is that a good idea?

Dr. Solomon | Because the ones the moment because what happens Robin is, the moment you name your defensiveness, you have put a little wedge of light between yourself and your behavior. So the moment you can name it, I'm feeling defensive, you have already broken the spell of your defensiveness, you already have kind of cut the power of your defensiveness down by half because you've, you've called out your own defensiveness and it's so much better so preferable to call out your own defensiveness rather than waiting for your partner to point it out to you, right, because that can also fuel defensiveness. So yeah, you're in abeautiful thing.

Robin | Such a dance such a dance, okay, so yesterday, I was I pulled January 8, which I thought was so great. January 8, is page nine. And you're, you're saying our relationships tend to need less problem solving and advice, and more space holding and empathy. This is so so good. And I you know, when you read this, it makes logical sense. And especially when you come to let's say, let's even use this can, this can be just with a friend, right? You're like, oh, my God, like I had the worst fricken day, I can't believe it. And you just want to vent, right, like, you're not looking for problem solving, you're looking for an empathetic place, a space of somebody is going to hold space, while you while you kind of unload so that you can kind of if they're okay with that. Right. But I love some of your suggestions on these pages about the responses, a problem solving response versus an empathetic response. And so problem solving is about fixing or advising, it sounds like you should, you need to, you have to, right? And of course we understand the opposite of that the empathetic response sounds like, this is complicated. Or I can see why you're struggling here. I was thinking more like, you know, you also like, just tell me more. Would that be epathetic? 

Dr. Solomon | Yes

Robin | Just like, how did that make you feel? Like, what so what if, would it be like this morning, I was talking to one of my really good friends about a struggle she was having with her family. And you know, as we do, it's, I'm, I mean, I'm saying the I was saying these things like, oh my gosh, and I'm empathizing. And then, but you can you can sometimes easily go into like, advice mode, and be like, Oh, this I understand. And this is like, this is not okay. And like so that right there is not being empathetic is it? That's more switching to problem solving? Am I mixing it? 

Dr. Solomon | Yeah no, I think you're right. I think you're right. But I think that that is that is so so okay, so for saying empathy, like empathy really is just like, you know, what, what therapists like to say, like holding space, that's the tell me more? That's the this sounds tough. That's the like, let me play that back for you, you know, or here's what I'm hearing you say that's empathy. Problem solving is the you should, why don't you and then there's kind of this like, funky middle space that you were getting into with your friend which is like what the Buddhists call idiot compassion, right? Like the whole my friends all the time. And my friends do it to me all the time. Sometimes it feels really, really good to be like, oh, that is so unfair, or how could they or you don't deserve that. You know, I think there's there are times when we really will sort of like because we we so care about these people in our lives. We will get all fired up on their behalf and I can't believe it did it. And there's a way that like sometimes that is necessary, and also is it is wise to temper that, I think in the most in the in the relationships that are really devoted to relational self awareness, it's like, okay, all right, and what's your part? Okay. All right. And, you know, how do you want to handle it in a way that really feels like you're within your integrity? Like that's, you know, kind of like that wise compassion? And I think there's a place for that. But yes, in general, here's what we're talking about here is like the advice giving, which we do it with our kids, too. I mean, I watched you know, I have emerging adult kids now, and they bring me a problem, I really, really am still practicing the art of not coming back with a five point plan of how they can solve their problem. Wow, it's really hard. It's a practice to just give the ball the space. And yeah, let's listen them into their own solutions.

Robin | Yep. I caught myself this morning, though. I was like, uh,oh I'm going into too much of idiot compassion here. I didn't I didn't have that term for it. But now I do. But I was like, I need to go back into being the listener. And, and not the problem that not even trying to give ideas. That's the other right. But I think there's a time obviously, there's a time and a place for the problem solving. And that's another thing that I think we can give each other is that guidance is like, right now. I'm just so pissed. Like, or, like, I need to just kind of tell you this story. And you'll listen, yes. All right. Or like, I would really love your advice. I'd really like your help with this one. And then you are switching into like asking that person for problem solving.

Dr. Solomon | That's right. That's right. Well, that's I mean, you just, you just nailed the difference, right? It's like, when you know if I'm coming to you or something, and I really actually would love your perspective on it. Like for us is to be clear on the assignment for us to clarify, the two of us, you know, that like, like this sort of like, you know, do you want do you want a hug? Do you want a pity party? Do you want advice? You know, just getting clear that like what I call like going meta, like talking about? How are we going to talk about this? Because you're right, there are times when, yeah, I've got a tangle inside of my inside of my brain inside of my heart. And I have some really trusted people in my life where I'm like, tell me what you're seeing. Tell me what you would do. If this was you. You know, given what you know about me, what is your guidance for me? My gosh, I think there's for sure a space for that. I think that we just very often underestimate the power of empathy.

Robin | Yes. I really liked it that you just said that like about like,

Dr. Solomon | Sorry. And I think that we I think we underestimate the power of empathy. And I think that we rush in with problem solving, in order to manage our own discomfort and seeing people we love struggle.

Robin | Yes, yes. I like what you said around having a tangle in your brain or tangling my heart. It's good. Okay, so this is a really important one, February 11th, page 45. The importance of apology. I think there's just too, we I also wanted to talk about the acknowledgement step that I think gets missed. Because we can say sorry, too quick, without acknowledging our part in that or the pain that we there's so many good words in your so many good prompts. So you say when your words or actions hurt someone else offer an apology, even if you've had a terrible day, even if you didn't want to hurt them, even if you wouldn't be hurt if the roles were reversed, offer an apology. Oh, that was good. Because I've we've all said that before, right? I even hear the person that we hurt that's like really upset. You're like, I don't understand what you're so upset about. Like I like I didn't first of all, like, that's not how I intended it. Oops, don't say that. Or it's like, you're telling you're telling somebody the story. And they're like, what's the big deal? Like if that was me, I wouldn't even think twice. Oops, right.

Dr. Solomon | And that is not I think when we know I think when we say that to people, we really I mean we're we're stating something that's true, right? We each of us has a different profile of tender spots. So it may really be the case that the thing I did that hurt you actually legitimately literally would not have hurt me. If you did it to me. The problem is, that does not effing matter. Because if I love you, and what you're telling me is that I hurt you. Then it is a leap. It is a faith walk for me to say you just go I love Robin I respect Robin ,Robin is hurt. Therefore I can attend to her hurt, you know, but there's some steps we got to we got to there's a bridge we have to cross, especially in that moment when I really feel like it wouldn't have hurt me if the roles were reversed. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

Robin | It doesn't matter. Yeah, you say when your words or actions hurt the people you love, you need to say, I'm sorry, it is a complete sentence. So I just wanted to point these out here. You say, this is like the thought, right? But I didn't mean to hurt them. Well, it doesn't matter. You can have both innocent intent and harmful impact. I think we talk a lot when it comes to hurting somebody, your intent might have been very loving. However, it didn't come across that way in the person's hurt whether it was your intention to hurt them or not. It happened.

Dr. Solomon | Right. Right. And thank goodness, you didn't have malicious intent. You know that what that shows is you are not a sociopath. You did not move through your day trying to hurt someone you love. Wonderful. hurdle cleared.

Robin | Good point, right. It's like we don't go out intending to hurt people. Right. It's just It does happen, though. Right. Good. That's a really good point. Next one, but I think they are overreacting. Well, it doesn't matter. Also, I love this, ban the word overreacting from your vocabulary. Oh, that's a good one. You are not the actuary of emotional responses. Yeah, and then, you know, but I've had a bad day. Well, that's really not an excuse, right? Of course, a bad day makes it harder to be sweet patient and playful. With those people in your lives, but a bad day is not a free pass. So what about like, you know, let's just, I just want to talk more, a little bit more about acknowledgement. Because I think sometimes the in between is very important to is like, for them for that you want the person that has hurt you. Let's just like if it's something not too serious, or that you, I'm sorry, is going to suffice, then I think that's right. But maybe times it's just like, there needs to be like I am, I acknowledged that what I, what I did, or what I said here, really did hurt you in this way. And my behavior was was totally uncalled for. And you're not making excuses, right? But the knowledge meant piece in the apology can go a long way to.

Dr. Solomon | That's right. Yeah. In fact, research around apology shows that although there are a few ingredients in effective apology, the number one most important ingredient is recognition of harm. Like I can see that I harmed you like just the recognition of the harm is just essential, you know, if that if that can't if that isn't there, the apology is not going to stick. And even if it is there, I think one of the hardest things about apology is that you can do everything correct, you could have this entry memorize. And you know, there are a number of entries about apology and forgiveness, because it's just such a huge theme in our relationships. You couldn't do it all right, and the other person may still need some time to move through it. And there can be not a darn thing you can do about it. So then there's the need for self care and patience and distraction, while the other does their part of it. And some part of the hurt person's journey may be just a journey, they've gotta go on themselves, you've done everything, right, you've given everything, you've changed your behavior, that they still may need a moment to make sense of it for themselves, to kind of step back into their own power, etc, etc. And so there may be there's a limit, potentially, in what you can do. And you can just maybe be patient hold steady and take care of yourself while you're waiting to see the impact of your apology on the other.

Robin | Wow, what a great point that is. That makes me think of a situation I had with a family member a few years ago where I hurt his feelings deeply and didn't know that it happened until I found out through other family members what where he was at. And I apologized and more than once I'm that person doesn't want any current conflict. Right. And I think it went over the apology, but that's okay. I'd rather be over than under. And there was still major distance in tension between us for actually a long time. And that was that I was I was out of my control at that point. Right. Like his piece. Like you can you can you can do your part of forgiveness, like you said and or sorry. Apologizing. And then that it's that the rest is out of out of your hands.

Dr. Solomon | Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then you know, the other part of it that we also some of the entries work on is for that family member of yours. I would want him to be looking at what's his investment and holding on to this pain, you know, like what is his, what is his piece of it like what keeps him from receiving your apology. So there is work to be done on the other side of the street, you know, I think we can go a bit deeper than just he can't he can't because the hurt was so big. Okay. Yes. And what does holding on to the hurt keep him safe from? What is the fear of re engaging with you? What is the fear? You know, so I think there's there are interesting elements there for the person on the receiving end of the apology to kind of continue to dig into because there are ways that holding on to a grudge as a defense against the vulnerability of re entering connection. 

Robin | Yes

Dr. Solomon | So yeah, it's just it's there. There's so much to learn from apology and forgiveness. 

Robin | There is and that and that's what you're saying is that the the other piece of it that we have is the forgiveness piece, because if we're holding on to unforgiveness, it hurts us. It really does. But yeah, it's all it's all part of it. So Oh, my gosh, well, I, I just want to pull this up again. And I hope that everyone listening or watching, we'll buy a copy and have it as your coffee table book. I have it in my daughter's study, which is right beside my office. And so every day, I like to have it standing because it's so beautiful. And so like if I pass by and choose my lesson, and, and I'm hoping that my girls open it up every once in a while they haven't even talked about it. But I'm using it and I love it. And my friends are too. So I thank you for being with us today and for going through quite just a few little lessons. But I always learned so much from you and enjoy our time together.

Dr. Solomon | It's really fun, fun to spend time with you. You are you know, you're just you're curious. And you're earnest and, and you ask wonderful questions that help the community that you have built in the community that really trusts you, you know, help them kind of have just additional tools in their toolbox and have a fresh perspective, a more deeply relational perspective, so wonderful to get to have this time with you.

Robin | I'm going to take one more minute and close with our blessings that are based on your words. May we seek to deepen our understanding and awareness of how we love and connect. May we be dedicated to learning new skills and tools to support our relational journey, and may we consciously practice love on a daily basis, by doing so we will improve our inner world, our closest and dearest relationships, as well as our connection to our greater community and environment. So thank you, Dr. Alexandra Solomon.

Dr. Solomon | Beautiful blessing. Thank you, Robin.

Robin | Thank you so much for listening. Visit realloveready.com to continue learning with us. Please rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the tools and guidance you need to form more loving relationships and create positive change in your life. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage you to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well. Many blessings and much love.